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TheDr
Ok, quick case history and a number of problem, any help appreciated.

In 2001 I was banned from driving for 3 years for Dangerous Driving, (someone tried to rob my car and I bumped him off the road....I got banned, he got an insurance payment...don't you just love the British legal system biggrin.gif )

I served my ban without appeal and it ended May 2004. Last night I was stopped in my car (general spot check), insurance came back as fine as did all the vehicle details, but my licence came back as "Disqualified until Test Passed". The officer was about to arrest me when I told him that this had been mentioned in a previous spot check last year, the officer at the time wasn't sure what to do and said that he would pass it to the CPS and if I heard nothing not to worry about it as it may be an error (it seems that there was also a note next to it saying "Query expiry Date". At "another" spot check (I drive a lot, have no points and my cars are all 100% street legal, it's just that the local "blitz" area for police is at the end of the road I live on) a few weeks ago the officer remembered me from years before and asked if I was banned, I told him I wasn't but mentioned the "Disqualified until Test Passed" that showed up last time, he rang through and was told that I was NOT banned, he queried this and was told that my ban had definitely ended, he said that it looked like the error had been sorted out now.

Last night when I was pulled over although his computer was showing this error the police computer said that I was NOT banned, which is why he let me go until Tuesday while he makes further enquiries.

I don't remember any "until test passed" when I was banned in May 2001, and looking up in the books I have it would appear that this did not become statute until Jan 2002, so could not have been given as a sentence before that time. Obviously I could do with some help here before I go to the police station on Tuesday.

Thank you.
viper
If you were banned for dangerous driving you would have to take a re-test for sure and it would be extended. You would have been before a Crown Court for dangerous driving it’s an extremely serious charge. Your PNC record would also be showing the conviction for that.

I would say you are a banned driver. That result is coming back direct from the DVLA driver’s database I can’t see why it would be incorrect as it’s a LIVE/real-time system. I.e. it’s produces a real-time enquiry result from the DVLA system. You are probably on the PNC as disqualified also although this may have dropped off as the conviction date is 2001. This might be why the officers are little confused but follow up enquiry should clarify.

To be convicted for dangerous driving you must take a re-sit by law to my knowledge. I’m sure some of the more knowledgeable on here will advise further.
viper
Just to follow up Disqualified until Test Passed – that is pretty clear cut. Very surprised they did not bring you in for that. Plus you would have the criminal conviction showing on PNC for dangerous driving. You are less than 0.1% of the population.
TheDr
I am not denying that my driving was dangerous or that I was banned, but that was in 2001, and the ban was for three years, once it was over as far as I was concerned that was it.

At the time of my dangerous driving I was in a car that I owned which was taxed, insured and I had a full licence.

On the opsi (Office of Public Sector Information) website www.opsi.gov.uk it lists the prescribed offence order as being made in Dec 2001 and coming into force 31st Jan 2002, as I was banned in May 2001 (and yes it was in a Crown Court) that order cannot have been made as it didn't exist then.

I could give you a huge list of how the prosecution of this case stunk from the beginning, as an example, when arrested I asked for the duty solicitor, it later turned out that the solicitor I was provided with was not on the duty list for that area, did not handle those type of cases and in fact for on bail himself for fraud.....investigated by that very station, unsurprising that my case received so little help and such a severe sentence despite there being no aggravating factors and a lot of mitigation, but that is all in the past and matters little, my concern is now.

I have tried to contact the firm who handled the case to get a record from them of the sentence but the firm has been disbanded, I have checked newspaper reports and it doesn't mention any re-test, neither does the original letter I got from the firm after sentence, the police computer (PNC) does not show it so the ONLY place it appears is the DVLA. Confirmation from them that it appears on their computer does not make it correct, it just means that it DOES appear on their computer.

After reading sections from the court hanbooks it would also show that this sentence is not to be used as a punishment (this has been upheld by the appeal courts) but to protect the public from drivers who's abilities have fallen below that which would be expected.

Again, any help appreciated.
bama
DVLA records are not 'sound' - in fact loads of errors in there. but that won't help much. from the sound of things you have a case but need an 'eagle eyed ' view...'
jeffreyarcher
Perhaps if you got in touch with the original Crwon court who sentenced you, they will be able to check their records.
Getting the DVLA to change their records is all but impossible. They have no authority to amend what a court tells them to do, even if the court is wrong. In such cases, you have to address it via the sentencing court. If the DVLA actually made a mistake at the time, someone in the DVLA looking now, probably has no way of knowing that the DVLA made the mistake in the first place, so you probably do still have to approach this via the court.
TheDr
Thanks that does make sense, even though it's over six years ago so I just hope that the courts still have thorough records after this time. Whilst I think I know what you mean, even if the Judge DID say that surely if it was not a law at that time it cannot be upheld.

I went onto the DVLA website to try and book a test (which if I was Disqualified until test passed I would have to), typed in my licence number and it says that I don't have to, this is just getting weirder by the minute.

I have done everything I can since I was banned to keep everything 100% legitimate, I employ drivers, I comply with all the laws regarding their licences and insurances, it doesn't matter WHAT needs doing to any of my cars it is all done same or next day, I don't know how far I have to go to stay legitimate, and at times like this I wonder why I bother.

Oh well...could be much worse. rolleyes.gif
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (TheDr @ Mon, 15 Oct 2007 - 00:56) *
even if the Judge DID say that surely if it was not a law at that time it cannot be upheld.

A very good question.
It's too late to appeal (21 days).
It's to late for a Judicial Review (3 months).
So, it seems that you would have to apply to the court to appeal 'out of time'. This is rarely granted, but in your case, since the prejudice is ongoing, and the sentence was illegal in the first place (if it was), it may well be allowed.
There may also be an angle via JR, in that, since you only became aware of the co*k-up two days ago, it wasn't possible to do anything about it sooner. Although, if the pull a year ago came to light, you may be scuppered there too.
TheDr
Thanks for the reply, so let me get this right, the judge "may" (I really don't remember) have given a sentence, part of which was not law at the time, and despite the fact that it wasn't the law it is me who has to apply to the court of appeal for it to be removed, and it might not be, despite the error being made by the judge, as I said in my first posting, don't you just love the British legal system rolleyes.gif

I have done some further checking (not stopped going through this all weekend) and there was a sentence for an extended driving test for drivers convicted of Dangerous Driving which came into force Jan 1992, but this is not a disqualification sentence it is a revocation of licence sentence which returns you to learner status until an extended test has been passed, and it is NOT what the DVLA computer says.

The JR seems like a good option, at the time of the first pull I was told that it would be sorted out one way or another, and as I heard nothing and the second pull came back as clear I just assumed that it had all be resolved.

What do you suggest I do on Tuesday (apart from not driving to the police station, just in case), should I take along a copy of the forms showing that this could not possibly have been given as a sentence because it didn't exist at the time, should I give my entire defence under interview or should I go in guns blazing and ask why if I was banned was nothing done after my first pull and why the second had come back clear ? (okay so maybe not guns blazing but you get the idea).

Thanks
viper
It would be highly unusual not to have to take a re-test for a dangerous driving conviction. As you state it now appears mandatory but at the time of your conviction it was optional (accoring to your research).

Options avail to you include:

Contacting original solicitors. The case is less than 6 years old so your files should still be in the firms archive. You better get onto that as I note case in 2001 most firms destroy after 6 years

Write to Crown Court and asking for sentencing information
Contact DVLA and ask for them to make a check. If the matter is in dispute they will refer it back to the Crown Court. Clearly the info from Crown Court given to DVLA would appear to suggest re-test was ordered

Or you can wait and see what the police find out. I should imagine they will be undertaking their own enquires. If you were not ordered to take a re-test you have very little to worry about as it will still be on the solicitor and court records. If you obtain proof send to DVLA and ask them to update your licensing record.

Most importantly just thinking about it what does your driver’s license say? Given fact you have this status with the DVLA I cannot see how you could have got your full license re-issued after the ban?
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