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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Gordon33
I received an NIP at the beginning of August. Police visited the house a couple of weeks later to confirm I was the driver(I was).
My question is how long have the authorities got to bring this to court?
nemo
QUOTE (Gordon33 @ Mon, 8 Oct 2007 - 13:29) *
My question is how long have the authorities got to bring this to court?

Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and then post the Wizard's output back here to enable us to help you. (not forgetting the Additional Questions on Page 2..wink.gif)
The Rookie
They have six months from the date of an alleged offence to lay information (assuming your in England or Wales, Scotalnd its slightly different) for a summons, the summons can arrive later and the court case can be much later.

If you fail to name the driver, that alleged offence occurs 28 days after you receive the S172 request (written, if its verbal the responce is meant to be immediate) so it typically times out about 5-6 weeks after the original alleged offence (such as speeding) does.

Simon
Oliver008
My understanding is the same i.e. 6 months from NIP.

The issue I have is that I received my Summons 8 days after the 6 month expiry but with the Date of the Summons 3 days before the 6 months (there was no postmark). BUT ...... the accompanying evidence is dated and signed as being 4 days after the 6 month expiry.

What happens here? Surely the Summons needs to be served only once the written witness statements are received, and this would put the summons past the 6 month expiry?

Help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Oliver
nemo
QUOTE (Oliver008 @ Mon, 8 Oct 2007 - 15:01) *
My understanding is the same i.e. 6 months from NIP.

Not so. For certain offences (speeding and failing to furnish, for instance), proceedings must be commenced within 6 months of the date of the alleged offence. In England & Wales, this is achieved by the laying of an information (an application for summons) at the Magistrates' Court.

QUOTE (Oliver008 @ Mon, 8 Oct 2007 - 15:01) *
The issue I have is that I received my Summons 8 days after the 6 month expiry but with the Date of the Summons 3 days before the 6 months

If the information was laid within 6 calendar months of the alleged offence, then proceedings were commenced within time.
The Rookie
As Nemo says, as long as SUFFICIENT information is 'layed' within the six months then the summons is 'valid' required information is accuseds name, location, date time of alleged offence and what the offence is. In Atkinson V DPP the onus is on the prosecution to PROVE sufficient info was layed on time (not just for example the accuseds name as a 'holding' move.

The 6 months is from the date of the offence and the date of the NIP is not relevant except determining when the S172 offence would have occured!

Simon
Gordon33
Sorry, I will fill the wizard in tonight. The NIP states I drove "wrecklessly and ignored a sign". I am in Scotland. Someone reported me to the police!
jeffreyarcher
For the traffic sign offence, you have to have had a written NIP recived within 14 days of the alleged offence, and they must send you a citation (summons) within 6 months of the date of the offence.
Curiously, the offence of reckless driving, which used to be in S2 of the RTA 1988, was substituted by dangerous driving by S1 of the RTA 1991.
Both offences (reckless and dangerous) required to be NIPped, so I wonder if the defect would preclude prosecution for dangerous, since you weren't NIPped?

AFAIK, the six months rule will still apply to dangerous, unless they go for a jury trial, which is hardly likely.
Since it's Scotland, they need corroboration. So, unless there are two witnesses (or other corroborating evidence (e.g. CCTV)), or you admit something, it can't go anywhere.
Gordon33
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2007
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Juntion for the Pine and Oak cafe, being an unclassified road
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Pulled out of Junction, missing no right turn sign. Car behind sped up, gesturing to me. He sped up so much he was really close to my car.

NIP states "a speed that was dangerous to other road users and failed to heed a road sign"

I presume it was the guy behind who reported me, with his wife(who was in the car) as a further witness


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

    We have an Article that describes what is likely to happen when you respond to the S172 notice in more detail.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.1: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:56:03 +0100
Gordon33
The NIP did not require a reply. Police visited me at home to confirm who was driving. I have heard nothing since.
Gordon33
Ignore post regarding "reckless driving". My head was up my arse yesterday.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (Gordon33 @ Thu, 11 Oct 2007 - 08:57) *
The NIP did not require a reply. Police visited me at home to confirm who was driving. I have heard nothing since.

Paper S172 responses are inadmissible in Scotland for dangerous driving, so that'll be why they visited you.
Did they make a verbal requirement under Section 172? If not, did they caution you before asking who was driving?
Did they ask you for your version of events?
Dangerous seems a bit OTT, however, one assumes that the other driver has laid it on thick.
I assume that you don't have a witness?

Nothing for it but to wait it out.
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