Sorry if this is the wrong section!

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - West Yorkishire - Kirklees
Date of the offence: - October 2007
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - B&Q Car Park, Leeds Road, Huddersfield
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Not sure! Received NIP in accordance with Section 1 of Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 for an "incident" that took place in B&Q car park at 1.30 on Monday 1st Oct. Incidently, I entered that car park at 1.30 so surely I could of been approached regarding the "incident".

The notice states at the top: "Div Accident Ref: log 862, 01-10-07" which implies that it was an accident.

I'm not aware of hitting anything/anyone. The notice was sent second class normal delivery, does that make a differance?



NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.0: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:40:26 +0100

And can I just point out there's no form to fill in, it states an officer will contact me in due course.

Are you absolutely sure it was 2nd class postage?

Pre-paid franked postage is cheaper than normal postage.

Yes, 100% certain it was 2nd class post (22p). The envelope is franked with West Yorkshire police logo.

I've still got the envelope although it's ripped in half. Everything is still clear though..

My bet is someone has 'reported' you for a prang...scuff...ding....imagined damage.
As you do not recall a 'coming together' this seems likely.
Often this is someone scamming some insurance claim. if the car park has video suggest you at least try to get it, though they probably re-use them regularly which makes delay critical. You never know they may cycle per week.
T'wer me I would be on the phone to the store manager (and their head office if needed) now and around there ASAP.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but it seems you have NOT received a S.172 request and therefore you are under no obligation to reply. I'd do what the letter says and wait for the BiB to get in contact.

Insurance scams a cottage industry. I agree about the police contact but would still hunt down any tape from B&Q. The 'injured party' may well have a witness. the often do to work the scam......

If it was 2nd class post the NIP isn't valid any way.

Section 1 (A) of the road traffic Act 1988 states :-

A notice is required by this section be served on any person may served on that person -
a) by delivering it to him
b) by addressing it to him and leaving it at his last known address, or
c) by sending it registered post recorded delivery service or first class post addressed to him at his last known address

In the case of services affected by first class post, however, the requirement is deemed to be complied with unless and contrary is proved.

I would be inclined to point this out with a photocopy of the envelope.

It doesn't mean there won't be some insurance claim winging its way.....

Thanks you lot, I feel a lot better. As the notice states, an officer will be in touch with me in due course so i'll sit back and wait for the door bell to ring.

As far as insurance is concerned, the more I think about it, it does sound like a scam. Why not just approach me in the car park? The time they stated is when I entered, not when I left. I didn't do any reversing and I certainly never drove into anything!

I'll keep you lot updated.

Thanks again.
Claire.

If there was an accident, there's no requirement for a NIP.

I agree with AF, if there is an accident there is no need for a NIP, so ist or 2nd class is irrelevant, sound slike its more to inform you of an incident they are investigating than anything else, you just have to sit back and wait for them to talk to you!

Simon

Do you mean an incident involving someone else, or it was me.. i.e I was driving carelessly/without due care??

Sorry to sound stupid. I've been driving 8 years and i've not come across anything like this

Thanks,
Claire.

A collision of some kind - whether or not your vehicle was physically involved in the collision.

Cheers Mr_F. I'll certainly be contesting any reporsts that I was involved.

And Huddersfield is one of the hotspots, too.

No help in this situation I know, but you should ALWAYS carry a camera phone, and in the event of even the tiniest "accident" photograph the damage to both cars.
If possible, try to photograph how many people were in the other car, as you may find that there were 5 more passengers that you did not see all of whom have severe whiplash injuries by the time the claim appears, as well as the other car mysteriously sustaining another £10,000 worth of damage.

Just a small update. I managed to have a telephone conversation with the police officer yesterday. Apparantly I reversed out of a space and 'bumped' into a car parked to the rear. He's seen the damage to the other car which he's described nothing more than a scratch and which t-cut wouldn't sort out.

But anyway, he's going to ring me back when he has his diary to hand so he can make an appointment for me to go down to the station and be interviewed under caution (I won't be arrested).

The NIP was for driving without due care and leaving the scene of an accident but he did say it's very very unlikely i'll be prosecuted for something as trivial as this.

So... i'm back to feeling like a criminal lol.

Also, I still don't know any details of the other party, should I wait before I contact my insurance company?

I suppose my main argument will be the timing. The officer says it happened at 1.30 but I didn't leave until at least 1.50 (I still have the till receipt).

Whilst, a has been pointed out, in the event of an accident, there is no need for a NIP, case law has held that if the driver was unaware of the accident, a (valid) NIP is stil required.

In-store CCTV has to be kept for 30 days and then it can be recycled. It can be kept for longer but not for less time. I imagine that the same is true for privately owned external CCTV.

Wolfie

I haven't heard that before. Where is this requirement laid down?

IMHO that is likely to either be a general policy adopted by most stores, or a requirement of the insurance companies.

the norm is 30 days and if its a good system (new) it will be on PC hard disk type recording
big question is whether they will let you use and see it

I'll try and find out the source - I remember coming across this from when I installed CCTV in a shop I used to own. It probably resolves to the DPA, although I think you'll find that all stores/petrol stations etc, recycle the tapes after 30 days. We used to have them numbered 1 to 31, and just make sure that the right day of the month was in.

Yes, I know Feb only has 28/29

Wolfie

Well, that was easier than I thought, the following is from the Information Commissioners CCTV Code of Practice:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/lib...of_practice.pdf

For example – publicans may need to keep recorded images for no longer than seven days because they will soon be aware of any incident such as a fight occurring on their premises.

For example – images recorded by equipment covering town centres and streets may not need to be retained for longer than 3l days unless they are required for evidential purposes in legal proceedings.

For example – images recorded from equipment protecting individuals’ safety at ATMs might need to be retained for a period of three months in order to resolve customer disputes about cash withdrawals. The retention period of three months is based on the interval at which individuals receive their account statements.

ALSO

THE FIFTH DATA PROTECTION PRINCIPLE

This requires that

"Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes".

This principle requires that the information shall not be held for longer than is necessary for the purpose for which it is to be used. The tapes that have recorded the relevant activities should be retained until such time as the proceedings are completed and the possibility of any appeal has been exhausted. After that time, the tapes should be erased. Apart from those circumstances, stored or recorded images should not be kept for any undue length of time. A policy on periods for retention of the images should be developed which takes into account the nature of the information and the purpose for which it is being collected. For example where images are being recorded for the purposes of crime prevention in a shopping area, it may be that the only images that need to be retained are those relating to specific incidents of criminal activity; the rest could be erased after a very short period. The Commissioner understands that generally town centre schemes do not retain recorded images for more than 28 days unless the images are required for evidential purposes.

There is apparently no strict legal requirement to keep them for any length of time (unless bama wants to comment on the standing of the CoP )

I also seem to recall that there is something about an individual having the right to view a recording that he appears upon, and that there was a certain time (30 days?) during which he could make that request.

Wolfie