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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] M4 Eastbound between JCT17 and 16, NR MP 149/9 (site MAO)
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
copperband
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Wiltshire
Date of the offence: - August 2007
Date of the NIP: - 12 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 13 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4 Eastbound between JCT17 and 16, NR MP 149/9 (site MAO)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The offence alleges that I was doing 97mph, exceeding 70mph on a motorway.


I know there's no hard and fast rule but if I'm told I will not be made a conditional offer,ie 3 points and £60 does that mean it will always be more points than 3?

I currently have 3 and whilst I would accept another 3 I don't want another 6 and be on the knife edge of 9 points for the next 2 and a half years.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.0: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:24:39 +0100
nemo
QUOTE (copperband @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 17:24) *
I know there's no hard and fast rule but if I'm told I will not be made a conditional offer,ie 3 points and £60 does that mean it will always be more points than 3?

96mph is the normal threshold below which offences can be dealt with by Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty.

In court, a conviction for 97mph in a 70mph limit carries a suggested sentence of 4-5 points OR a short period of disqualification.
copperband
Thanks for the reply Nemo, are you saying they couldn't give me 6 points or is that dependant on the court?
I am really unsure what to do about this, on the one hand I think if I got 4 points and a fine of say a few hundred pounds I would take it.
On the other hand part of me feels its worth me paying a solicitor £500 to do his best to get me off the offense, I have talked to one (mentioned elsewhere on this forum) today and he is happy to take on my case.

The issue I have is that other than a loophole or the equipment not being tested,calibrated,etc that morning i can't really see how else he might get me off and then if I drag it on and still go to court they could come down on me harder?
copperband
Another thing nemo - by short period of disqulification what do you mean a few weeks or a few months. In some ways I'd rather be banned for a few weeks than get say 6 points and then drive around on a knife edge for 2 1/2 years?
nemo
QUOTE (copperband @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 23:34) *
Thanks for the reply Nemo, are you saying they couldn't give me 6 points or is that dependant on the court?

The tariff I quoted comes from the current Magistrates' Guidelines but, as you point out, sentencing is at the discretion of the court. That said, an inordinately punitive sentence could always be appealed.

QUOTE (copperband @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 23:34) *
On the other hand part of me feels its worth me paying a solicitor £500 to do his best to get me off the offense, I have talked to one (mentioned elsewhere on this forum) today and he is happy to take on my case.

To defend or to mitigate your case ?

QUOTE (copperband @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 23:34) *
and then if I drag it on and still go to court they could come down on me harder?

The Magistrates can offer a sentence reduction of up to one third for an early guilty plea. From there, the amount of reduction to sentence they are permitted to apply diminishes as the case progresses. Inevitably, this means that if you plead not guilty, attend court and are convicted, then you are likely to receive a higher sentence (plus any extra court / prosecution costs) than if you had pleaded guilty early on.
nemo
QUOTE (copperband @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 23:37) *
by short period of disqulification what do you mean a few weeks or a few months. In some ways I'd rather be banned for a few weeks than get say 6 points and then drive around on a knife edge for 2 1/2 years?

The Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines (Page 75) suggest up to 42 days.
copperband
Thanks again Nemo for the clarification.
I was talking to the solicitor about trying to help me in general, I guess to begin with that would be mitigate the case through finding a hole in the evidence the prosecution have, if it goes on to court then he would be there to defend me, or maybe I would defend myself with his guidance?

I hear what you are saying on the fine reduction, to me its more about the points - I can go without things to pay a fine I can't do the same with the points. I drive about 40k miles a year with my job and to have to do that at or just under the speedlimit would be very difficult.
copperband
QUOTE (nemo @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 23:52) *
The Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines (Page 75) suggest up to 42 days.


I see 42 days I could not do, I would have no job for a start
copperband
Still undecided about how to proceed with this I decided to call the Wiltshire safecam ticket office again.
I spoke to a different person this time who to be fair was pretty helpful.
I told him that I was struggling to comprehend that I was doing the alleged speed and asked if all the callibration tests had been done on the laser device that morning to ensure accuracy. he said that they were "water tight" on doing these checks and told me that the device wouldn't work unless the checks were carried out first. I have to say that the last bit didn't ring true in my mind but it did make me think that almost certainly Wiltshire police or whoever operates the device are probably pretty diligent at getting the checks done before they set up for the day, so to speak.
He said that I should get advice from Cit Advice or a solicitor as I would not be offered a conditional offer due to this being over 96mph (97mph as it is).he said he was sure I would likely get 4 or 5 points and a fine but also it was possible that I could be banned or receive 6 points?
I sort of feel a bit stuck with what to do here, I can't see what a solicitor could really do for me other than help me put together a case for getting a lesser no. of points on the grounds of some personal mittigation that I feel I have for being "distracted" by personal issues in my life causing a temporary lapse in concentration.
The only straw I have to grasp at is when I look at the photo's of the incident, I am rounding a sharp bend (as sharp as bends can be on) on the motorway and so could a case be put to say that the operator has had time to see me,suspect me of speeding and then check my speed via the device or could it be argued that he is holding the device in the outside lane ready to catch people as they round the bend?

half of me says return the NIP and represent myself in court on a guilty plea but putting my case to the court for my reasons of lapsed concentration, I would then hope to get the minimum no of points and a fine, I guess 4 or 5 points?

the other half of me says to hand this over to an expert and spend the £500 on seeing what he can do for me.

I don't know how the process works do I get any offer of the punishment with the summans before I go to court or do I have to wait until the day in court itself (apologies if this is an obvious question)

Any help gratefully received.
BRADB
i'm in the same boat 96mph over 600m from the sutton benger bridge i also have three points and a court date in the next three weeks. i still don't know what to do. shall i let you know the outcome.
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