Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Hillingdon Council - Not sure where to go from here??
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
the_ginger_ninja
Hi All,

I've gone through the FAQ, but to be honest I'm more than a little confused, so perhaps someone can guide me a little.

On the 22/5/07 I received a notice on my car to say that I had parked after the expiry time on my ticket in a council owned multi-story car park. I wrote to them enclosing my parking tickets (there were two, one on each side of the vehicle expiring at different times as I had renewed it earlier) and told them that I expected them to get rid of the notice & fine. To which I heard nothing back for a few weeks so expected it to be fine.
About 8 weeks later I receive a Notice to Owner (although dated the 27/6/07 - approx 35 days after the alleged infraction). I can only expect that the post held it up. The Notice stated that they would increase the fine by 50% if I didn't stump up the cash. I wrote to them again, including the previous letter, stating my case and requesting that the ticket be canceled again. Unfortunately I did not photocopy the original tickets.
A few weeks later I received ANOTHER letter, this time a Charge Certificate stating that I now owed £120.00!!! I was furious, and wrote in again enclosing a copy of both my other letters. About 10 days ago I receive a letter stating that they had recieved my last letter but that "there is no representation of appeal at the Charge Certificate stage". I await the letter that they say is following which I received y/day morning which is from the special debt recovery team asking if I want to make a Statutory Declaration or just pay the money.

I've managed to get a copy of Hillingdon's photo's of the offence, and in them you cannot see any parking tickets at all, let alone just one or another (I assumed that the inspector was just being a bit blind), but they have taken photo's from both sides of the car (inc drivers & passengers window) and the front.

I'm really not sure what to do now. I know that I was very stupid not to have made photocopies of the tickets or sent them signed for delivery, but I've disputed tickets before with my local authority in the same way and never come off the worse for it. All in all I don't want this to become a very expensive lesson, especially as I really believe that they must have screwed up somewhere (I'm assuming that they received at least one of them but 'lost it').

Please help!

Regards,

TGN
eddie1234567
QUOTE (the_ginger_ninja @ Sun, 30 Sep 2007 - 23:47) *
Hi All,

I've gone through the FAQ, but to be honest I'm more than a little confused, so perhaps someone can guide me a little.

On the 22/5/07 I received a notice on my car to say that I had parked after the expiry time on my ticket in a council owned multi-story car park. I wrote to them enclosing my parking tickets (there were two, one on each side of the vehicle expiring at different times as I had renewed it earlier) and told them that I expected them to get rid of the notice & fine. To which I heard nothing back for a few weeks so expected it to be fine.
About 8 weeks later I receive a Notice to Owner (although dated the 27/6/07 - approx 35 days after the alleged infraction). I can only expect that the post held it up. The Notice stated that they would increase the fine by 50% if I didn't stump up the cash. I wrote to them again, including the previous letter, stating my case and requesting that the ticket be canceled again. Unfortunately I did not photocopy the original tickets.
A few weeks later I received ANOTHER letter, this time a Charge Certificate stating that I now owed £120.00!!! I was furious, and wrote in again enclosing a copy of both my other letters. About 10 days ago I receive a letter stating that they had recieved my last letter but that "there is no representation of appeal at the Charge Certificate stage". I await the letter that they say is following which I received y/day morning which is from the special debt recovery team asking if I want to make a Statutory Declaration or just pay the money.

I've managed to get a copy of Hillingdon's photo's of the offence, and in them you cannot see any parking tickets at all, let alone just one or another (I assumed that the inspector was just being a bit blind), but they have taken photo's from both sides of the car (inc drivers & passengers window) and the front.

I'm really not sure what to do now. I know that I was very stupid not to have made photocopies of the tickets or sent them signed for delivery, but I've disputed tickets before with my local authority in the same way and never come off the worse for it. All in all I don't want this to become a very expensive lesson, especially as I really believe that they must have screwed up somewhere (I'm assuming that they received at least one of them but 'lost it').

Please help!

Regards,

TGN


At the NTO stage they were meant to respond to your Appeal with a Notice of Rejection. If you don't have one you will have to make a Statutory Declaration. Before you do, Can you scan or type in the details of the NTO and the Charge Certificate (removing personal details of course) so we can see if you have any more ammo available
FEENIX
QUOTE
At the NTO stage they were meant to respond to your Appeal with a Notice of Rejection. If you don't have one you will have to make a Statutory Declaration. Before you do, Can you scan or type in the details of the NTO and the Charge Certificate (removing personal details of course) so we can see if you have any more ammo available


You are going to have to personally take a letter to the parking services and tell them they cannot issue an NTO until you have had your informal representations rejected, you can't file a stat dec as you have already received a NTO, if they say they sent it, tell them you will wait until they produce a copy, never send anything off to any council unless you copy them and then only send the copies and all letters should be sent recorded or taken personally and ask them to stamp the letter with time date stamp
Theboxers
Hillingdon NTO

I have a similar situation running for my brother. The NTO's were invalid. Read my link. 2 of 3 tickets canceled so far, a third waiting for contact from patas.

Hillingdon did not have a clue with their paperwork. Compare yours to mine posted in the other thread. If they are the same they are invalid.

Good Luck.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (FEENIX @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 00:43) *
QUOTE
At the NTO stage they were meant to respond to your Appeal with a Notice of Rejection. If you don't have one you will have to make a Statutory Declaration. Before you do, Can you scan or type in the details of the NTO and the Charge Certificate (removing personal details of course) so we can see if you have any more ammo available


You are going to have to personally take a letter to the parking services and tell them they cannot issue an NTO until you have had your informal representations rejected, you can't file a stat dec as you have already received a NTO, if they say they sent it, tell them you will wait until they produce a copy, never send anything off to any council unless you copy them and then only send the copies and all letters should be sent recorded or taken personally and ask them to stamp the letter with time date stamp


Although it is good form to respond to informal reps, they don't have a duty (other than implied) to consider them or respond. He did recieve an NTO and did make Formal Reps which they have ignored and not even issued a Notice of Rejection, which is a ground to make a Stat Dec (2(b) below)


QUOTE
(2) The statutory declaration must state that the person making it— (a) did not receive the notice to owner in question;

(b) made representations to the London authority concerned under paragraph 2 above but did not receive a rejection notice from that authority; or

© appealed to a parking adjudicator under paragraph 5 above against the rejection by that authority of representations made by him under paragraph 2 above but had no response to the appeal
the_ginger_ninja
Thanks for the really quick replies all, nice to know that there is somewhere for the very confused motorist to come. It's a shame that they don't actually help in any way themselves, but hey, what can we expect??

When I get home tonight I'll scan in their bits of paperwork - can someone please tell me how I get it up onto the board?

Theboxers - I read your post but either I'm far too sleep deprived or there are too many TLAs - I really don't understand much of it I'm afraid.

With regard to taking a letter round personally, I can't really do that as I was there on business and it's a 4 hour round trip so not really the easiest of things to do.

Thanks again!

TGN
DW190
I think there may be something missing here. In the first post the op stated the following
QUOTE
About 8 weeks later I receive a Notice to Owner (although dated the 27/6/07 - approx 35 days after the alleged infraction). I can only expect that the post held it up. The Notice stated that they would increase the fine by 50% if I didn't stump up the cash. I wrote to them again, including the previous letter, stating my case and requesting that the ticket be canceled again. Unfortunately I did not photocopy the original tickets.


Simply writing to them does not follow the statutory procedure. You must make representations in the way stated on the NTO or in such a way that you are making representations against their NTO.

QUOTE
Dear Sirs,

Representations - Penalty Charge Notice GN322
eddie1234567
QUOTE (DW190 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 09:50) *
I think there may be something missing here. In the first post the op stated the following
QUOTE
About 8 weeks later I receive a Notice to Owner (although dated the 27/6/07 - approx 35 days after the alleged infraction). I can only expect that the post held it up. The Notice stated that they would increase the fine by 50% if I didn't stump up the cash. I wrote to them again, including the previous letter, stating my case and requesting that the ticket be canceled again. Unfortunately I did not photocopy the original tickets.


Simply writing to them does not follow the statutory procedure. You must make representations in the way stated on the NTO or in such a way that you are making representations against their NTO.

QUOTE
Dear Sirs,

Representations - Penalty Charge Notice GN322



DW, I have to disagree on this one, maybe not to a huge extent, but this is what I am fighting with the adjudicator at the moment.

The law just states representations against the Notice to Owner, it doesn't say to use their form. In fact the form isnt' big enough for the info required. Now a form use for convenience of both parties is sensible, but to refuse a communication with all the information is just as contrary.

With the adjudicator up north here they are saying that A Notice of Appeal form must be used, I am arguing that I put in a notice of appeal (note capitalisation, the action of appeal as opposed to the object used to make the appeal) as per the law, it doesn't say anywhere on it that a form 'Must' be used or included. They said it was for admin purposes as it has the date the council claim NoR was issued. I said but that info is in there in the first paragraph as well as a copy of the NoR.

And around and around it goes. Similar to Speeding cases. We mostly return the form with 'see attached' on it, but the court ruled that it wasn't necessary to use their form, as it is not specified in law.

Not arguing against the admin benefits of using their forms, just the principle. I'll gladly accept any directions to correct info
Tony-Medusa
QUOTE
You are going to have to personally take a letter to the parking services and tell them they cannot issue an NTO until you have had your informal representations rejected, you can't file a stat dec as you have already received a NTO, if they say they sent it, tell them you will wait until they produce a copy, never send anything off to any council unless you copy them and then only send the copies and all letters should be sent recorded or taken personally and ask them to stamp the letter with time date stamp


That goes for most councils.
I am overlooking a serious case with Hillingdon. I understand that ONLY this last week they got the wording on their NTO corrected. Up until now this case shows two serious maladministrations, and two instances therefore of harassment.
Remember harassment and Fraud take such cases OUT of the AMBIT of the RTA1991. and Into the local county court for ofences. Once you reaach that stage, the case no longer resides merely under the RTA 1991.
Be very wary.
DW190
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 10:35) *
DW, I have to disagree on this one, maybe not to a huge extent, but this is what I am fighting with the adjudicator at the moment.

The law just states representations against the Notice to Owner, it doesn't say to use their form. In fact the form isnt' big enough for the info required. Now a form use for convenience of both parties is sensible, but to refuse a communication with all the information is just as contrary.


Looking for an argument Eddie, you picked on the right one. laugh.gif (Only Joking)

As you state above the law just states "Representation against the NtO" and that is the point I was trying to make. F,ing marbles are vanishing slowly.

The Point: Make it clear that the letter is "Representations against the NtO" and not just a letter arguing a point.

The point I was trying to make was start your letter:

Dear Sirs,

Representations - Penalty Charge Notice GN322

This would then comply with the law, thats all that's required.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (DW190 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 15:23) *
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 10:35) *
DW, I have to disagree on this one, maybe not to a huge extent, but this is what I am fighting with the adjudicator at the moment.

The law just states representations against the Notice to Owner, it doesn't say to use their form. In fact the form isnt' big enough for the info required. Now a form use for convenience of both parties is sensible, but to refuse a communication with all the information is just as contrary.


Looking for an argument Eddie, you picked on the right one. laugh.gif (Only Joking)

As you state above the law just states "Representation against the NtO" and that is the point I was trying to make. F,ing marbles are vanishing slowly.

The Point: Make it clear that the letter is "Representations against the NtO" and not just a letter arguing a point.

The point I was trying to make was start your letter:

Dear Sirs,

Representations - Penalty Charge Notice GN322

This would then comply with the law, thats all that's required.


... And in the blue corner ding, ding, ding ohmy.gif

Gortcha now, yep re-reading it again, I can see the light.
DW190
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 16:55) *
Gortcha now, yep re-reading it again, I can see the light.


I was told that the light at the end of the tunnel had been swiched off. Is it back on again? tongue.gif
eddie1234567
QUOTE (DW190 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 22:32) *
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2007 - 16:55) *
Gortcha now, yep re-reading it again, I can see the light.


I was told that the light at the end of the tunnel had been swiched off. Is it back on again? tongue.gif



Yeah, but the bad news is, it's a freight train....... laugh.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.