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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Mart9012
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Thames Valley
Date of the offence: - September 2007
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - New Road, High Wycombe
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am riding my motorcycle along the A4010 (New Road) in early rush hour (16:13 on a Friday). This road is a busy route joining the M40 J4 (Handy Cross) with Aylesbury avoiding High Wycombe. The road is a long fairly steep hill that has an extremely bumpy road surface and I am travelling south down the hill. A camera has taken a photo of the back of my bike apparently speeding at 35mph where the speed limit is 30mph (I have the photo).

I am aware of a common location for a camera van approx half way down the hill parked in a layby attached to the left lane (going uphill) with the back of the van facing down the hill. The photo I have is at a strange angle for this camera as it looks like the camera was directly behind me.

Given that 35mph is the minimum possible speed that a camera prosecution is allowed under ACPO rules (10% + 2mph), I wonder with the threshold set so low, that there is absolutely no reasonable allowance for error. Going downhill on a bumpy road in traffic requires greater attention to control, and on an old motorcycle that may indeed have a speedo error of 10% there is no margin at all for changes in gradient or bumps!

Also, why was I picked out among the traffic, do camera operatives have to use the camera to corroborate an opinion or are they allowed to just check each vehicle as it passes them? If the operator of the van is taking photos of the back of my bike then they can only look down the hill, catching speeders as they pass from behind them.

I have to go before the court as I live on Incapacity Benefit and there is no way I can pay a £60 fixed penalty straight off. Im hoping this doesn't add to my woes...


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.0: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:34:04 +0100
andy_foster
The layby on the hill to Sands is on/near a left hand bend (if you are going downhill), so it would seem probable that a ping from behind could appear to have been from directly behind.

You story missed out the steps between receiving the NIP and the photograph mysteriously materialising in your hands.

For most people, the biggest issue is avoiding points. As you will no doubt be aware, on page 2 of your NIP it states that TVP offer a speed awareness course (£74 and no points) for 35-39 in a 30.
However, if you can't find £60, you probably can't find £74 either.

Regarding the tolerance, speeding is an absolute offence. The only tolerance applied is the ACPO guidelines not to prosecute below 10% +2 over the limit. The speed limits don't vary according to whether you're going uphill or downhill, or whether your speedometer is defective (under-reading is potentially a separate construction and use offence).

If you go to court and lose, you will usually be allowed to spread the repayments over a year, but are likely to be hit with ~£40 costs and a minimum of £60 fine.
Mart9012
Thanks for the reply. I was so surprised at being sent the NIP that I asked for a photo to be sure it really was me! Im amazed, and they must have caught a huge number of cars as it was rush hour and I was just in a line of traffic....

I can't pay £60, so it will have to go to court. Im peeved at being done for 5mph over the limit, especially as I always try to stick to the limit. This area has more cameras that cows, I pass about 5 within 2 miles! Oh well..
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