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nuttybabez
Hiya,

Here are the details -
07/04/07 - My car flashed by an LTI 20-20 handheld camera
13/04/07 - Receive NIP
13/04/07 - Request photo evidence via telephone. Was advised that it was a female driver and male passenger.
16/04/07 - Receive photo of rear of my car. No view of driver as headrest in way. Can see part of passengers head.
18/04/07 - NIP returned with letter stating I was unsure who was driving as the car was for sale at the time and its a 2 seater car so I didn't accompany all test drives and nobody reported being flashed (surprise surprise).
26/04/07 - Received a letter saying that due to circumstances it would not be possible to settle the matter without being placed before Court.
25/08/07 - Received court summons for failing to identify driver and speeding.

But since I received the summons, I now have the camera serial code and I have checked the local police website and the calibration certificate provided for this particular camera is out of date. Does that mean that they have not updated the certificate on the website or that the camera has genuinely not been re-calibrated? The website was updated in May.

Also, it is an LTI 20-20 camera which I understand is/has been in dispute as to its accuracy? (I don't want this to turn into another LTI 20-20 bashing thread)

Also, now I have looked at the examples of photographic evidence on the pepipoo website, something has become apparent which I had previously overlooked - on the photo sent to me, there is no speed or range. So therefore I only have the operators opinion that I was speeding?

Please help, what do I do now?
andy_foster
The primary issue here is that you have not provided the driver's details. You will need to prove (on the balance of probabilities) that you don't know who was driving, and that you could not with reasonable diligence determine who was driving.

Have you provided all the information in your power to give that might lead to the identification of the driver?
What steps have you taken in an attempt to determine who was driving?

The speeding allegation is unlikely to proceed - they seem to have no evidence of the driver's identity.
nuttybabez
Ok. I have informed them that the car was for sale and it could have been anyone driving it.

I don't have names or addresses of the people who test drove the car so I am a bit stuck.

I don't think putting an ad in the paper asking for anyone who test drove my car to come forwards will work either! lol!

I have checked my bank statement and studied the picture. It may have been me but it may not and I can't be sure.
The Rookie
You will need to show you used reasonable dillignce in trying to ID the driver, as teh car was for sale you will no doubt be able to show some evidence of that, and presumably you have since managed to sell it and so can show that, you would also logically would have had notes of people who were intersteds phone numbers and would have been able to ring them?

Some scammers don't keep the cal certs on the websites up to date and what is on there is just examples, but based on the out of date on the website you would be entitled to ask for evidence it was in date, also if its been claibrated since its worth asking fr the record of what repairs may have been needed.

The LTI20.20 is an approved device, there are many issues with it, but as the law stands you will have to prove itwasn't working/operated correctly, not vice versa, so your defence statement needs to include a request for the video.

The photo sent has probably had the speed/range cropped as you presumably wanted it to ID the driver?

Simon
nuttybabez
I didn't manage to sell the car and have since decided not to sell but I should be able to find receipts/copies of adverts. I didn't advertise it in many places though.

I did have a list of names of people who came to view the car but once they had been, I threw the piece of paper away. I never thought to keep it.

I have contacted the calibration people and they say that the camera is in date so it must be the website thats out of date.

I don't think the photo has been cropped....maybe the speed was on one of the other pics? Maybe I should phone and ask?

I don't want to alert them to any of their errors in case they 'correct' them before this progresses.
nuttybabez
Dragging this topic back up now.

I have received my summons and I am due to attend court in just over 2 weeks.

There are 2 charges on the summons - speeding and s172.

If I admit to the speeding and take the 3 points and £60 fine, will they drop the s172 which I understand carries heavier penalty?

I cannot be reasonably sure whether it was or wasn't me driving and I don't really want a big battle about this.
The Rookie
If you admit speeding they will almost certainly drop the S172, but if you werent driving and 'knowingly or recklessly' give a statement that is untrue, you risk spending time in one of her Majesties free hostels, so DO NOT GO THERE.

Either you know you were driving and have been very cavalier, or don't and should stick to that and the reasonable dillignece.

The date of your alleged S172 offence means its a 3 pointer anyway....but the fine would be heavier if found guilty.

Simon
nuttybabez
I don't KNOW if I was driving, thats the problem.

It may have been me or it may not and I can't be sure.

I would rather have the smaller of the 2 fines understandably.

I am trying to get some legal representation - I haven't returned my plea yet and I have to be in court in 2 weeks!!
The Rookie
If you don't know then you fall under the 'recklessley' you MUST only say its you driving if you are reasonably sure you were.....

Legal representation will likely cost more than you will save to be honest!

Simon
nuttybabez
So the s172, is that a heavy charge then?

I have managed to get some free legal representation through my company but he won't advise me how to plea.
davepoth
QUOTE (nuttybabez @ Wed, 28 Nov 2007 - 19:48) *
So the s172, is that a heavy charge then?

I have managed to get some free legal representation through my company but he won't advise me how to plea.



The S.172 will result in a similar penalty to speeding for you, 3 points and a fine around £100, but insurance companies don't like the MS90 points that a S.172 charge puts on your license.

If you really want to fight this, take a look at my case in the "Case Files" section.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=15654

nuttybabez
What are MS90 points?
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