Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: D&G unsigned route
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
scotsexile
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - D&G
Date of the offence: - May 2007
Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A74(M) Glasgow-Carlisle Road. southbound carriageway nearto Torwood Overbridge, Junction 17, Lockerbie,Dumfires & Galloway
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Driving South saw van on bridge had just been overtaken by 2 cars not convinced I was doing this speed 84mph could have been though.
Sent Nip back filled out by wife naming me as driver (unsigned) on 24th June by special delivery.
Received letter from D&G returning original NIP on 27th June stating failure to sign is a contravention of RTA 1988 etc. ( Did not respond)
Received 2nd NIP dated 10th July with added section that NIP has been previously sent & that no reply has been received to date with added info on penalties for failure to provide full name & address & 7 days to respond or report to PF. ( Did not respond)
2/3 calls from D&G on answer machine requesting I call them . ( did not call )
16th Aug visit from local contabulary wife answered door & said I was unavailable, request that I call in to local station to respond to speeding allegation from Glasgow ?? & that they had not received any responses to their correspondence, wife was able to state that form had been rtnd & that she had filled in on my behalf as I was @ the time working away.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v2.2.3: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:04:59 +0100
The Rookie
Sounds like you just need to keep your head down for another 2 months minimum!

Simon
firefly
Persistent, aren't they?!

In your shoes I'd keep on going until they catch you and make them work for their money. However, if you want an easy life then just take what's coming to you.

Your shout.
Wolfie_17
Don't know if it helps any but this is what happened to me, I may have just been lucky! smile.gif

QUOTE
I got an NIP from Dumfries & Galloway constabulary in August 05 for 93mph on the A74(M), southbound nearto Torwood Overbridge, J17, Lockerbie to be specific.

This is the story in brief:

Being brave I ignored the first NIP.

Being stupid I ignored the second reminder NIP

I had a brown trouser moment when the wife rang me to say that two of the local Warwickshire plod had come knocking acting on behalf of their Scottish colleagues to speak to me about a driving offence in Scotland! & could I kindly ring them.

I duly rang like a good citizen & made an appointment to be interviewed at Rugby nick, where I was duly cautioned & asked to explain by two of them (Scottish Law) why I had not replied to the nice policemens letters.

I have to say that the guy was a very helpful person indeed & actually gave me advice on how to beat the rap, saying I should write back asking for the photos & showing reasonable diligence etc, but the woman officer was a vile beast from the depths who wanted to see me hang!

This is my letter:
Dear Sir

I have recently been handed the enclosed intended prosecution notice, however after extensive research into the possible occupants of the vehicle it has proved difficult to establish the person that was actually driving the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence.

I have been interviewed by Warwickshire Police at Rugby police station in relation to the above mentioned enquiry & this also has failed to identify the driver.

Could you please supply the mentioned evidence so that the guilty driver can be established? It would be a real miscarriage of justice if an innocent driver were to plead guilty whilst a guilty driver gets away with it! In the interests that justice prevails your photographic evidence may prove this.

Thank you for your co-operation


Anyway, they returned returned my statement to Dumfries & Galloway & I never heard another thing about it!

Its a funny thing the law isn't it?
scotsexile
Hi All,

Many thanks for advice I was thinking of getting wife to go to station with proof that the NIP has been replied to.
Any thoughts or past experience of this strategy ?

Regards,

Scotsexile
scotsexile
Hi All,

Appreciate advice on whether sending third party to demonstrate docs have been sent in response to NIP will satisy local constabulary ??
Verbal allegation on doorstep was that D&G had not received a response when their own correspondence accepts that they have, & proof that docs have been rtnd exists ??
P.S has anyone sought thro' FOI act whether D&G have complied with 15% discretionary rule for the cameras on the M74 & whilst this would not be a valid defence if they are non compliant then funding to the partnership could be affected under the guidlines set by Scottish Exec.
Hit them where it hurts!!

Regards
scotsexile
Hi Guys,

3rd visit from local constabulary today "just to fill out forms sent by D&G " no caution issued asked why I had not responded to correspondence, stated I had & produced copy of proof of posting & receipt from tracker.
Asked me if I was driver stated that response had been sent in compliance with S172 to D&G & that I was not prepared to respond further.
They left stating that they would rtn which they duly did 5 mins later cautioned with S172 failing to identify driver & left.
Any advice on next steps would be welcome.

Regards,

Scotsexile
firefly
The long arm of the law, eh? Sounds like you've been charged with s.172. Nothing to do now but sit back and wait to see what happens.

On the plus side, we have heard of the police paying a personal visit and charging only for nothing to materialise in the post subsequently. Don't bank on this though.
scotsexile
Hi Firefly,

I thought to charge with S172 they had to have been granted authority by CC of D&G ?

Regards,

Scotsexile
The Rookie
I raised this before but can't recall an answer....

The S172 request is on behalf of the 'local cheif of Police' but is that local to the alleged offence? (I would say so by implication - but is their any more wording or case law to support or refute that?) If so then do the two BiB from a.n.othershire have the authority to make that S172 request, or are they only appoved by their own CoP to enquire about alleged offences on their own patch?

Simon
firefly
I must confess that I haven't read anything on the CC's authorisation of constables for a couple of years, and I'm heading out for the afternoon, but I do remember this case. I will read more about the various cases (Neal v Fior, Foster v Farrel etc) and post back, if JA doesn't beat me to it first. smile.gif
The Rookie
I can only find one paragraph from Foster V Farrel, which would appear to be pursuasive in the way its worded, but not specifically helpful, can't read the linked case though as my BB&G lapsed as I still can't get a NIP! (Although I'm now trying SGL's recomendation of driving below the posted limit as he gets more that way!)

However I've also now noticed that S172 doesn't say a 'local' (as I thought) CoP (nice acronym!) but 'a', which may scupper my line of thought, though of course if questioned by any constanble you would be entitled to ask if they have the authority, if they can't answer, you would certainly have a defence in not replying!

Simon
scotsexile
Hi Firefly, Simon,

Appreciate your help & guidance to date I will read thro' what has been posted.
It appears to me that it will depend on whether summons is for S172 & / or alleged speeding.

Regards,
Scotsexile
scotsexile
Hi guys,

Received COFP £120 & 3 pts for S172 today from the PF office, I presume that as I intend to plead not guilty I ignore ?
NIP was rtnd special delivery completed but unsigned as I was not in country when this was due to be rtnd.
Any mileage in writing to PF or wait for summons ?
Appreciate your advice.

Regards,

Scotsexile
Glacier2
A COFP for S172? I would say that this is unprecedented. Does the PF have the authority to issue COFP for S172?
chubbybrown
D&g hav done this before £120 and 3pts. search the forums.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.