Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Am I off to court?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Jack C
Hi,
Long story but back in May I was pulled over by two traffic officers in a marked car and told I was travelling at excess speed 90+. This was in a national speed limit dual carrige way. I was given an FPN and told I would get 3 points. They told me I would have to take my documents to my local police station to have it all processed which I did 3 days later. When at the police station I handed over everything including the FPN slip where it was processed and my licience and everything handed back to me. When i asked if I needed to send anything off I was told I just need to send a cheque or payment to the payment office. I was given a a4 sheet to proove I had produced and went on my way. I sent the payment the same night and thought nothing more of it.

That was untill today when I have recieved a letter in the post from the courts service, this included a £60 cheque made to myself. The letter said that the matter has been passed for court proceedings.

What does this meen? I thought that as I have produced everything I was required to and paid the fine the matter was all over and done with? Can they give you an FPN and the change their mind? Where do I stand? I am considering getting legal advice, would this be wise?

I am unable to attach a copy of the letters as im unsure how if anyone can help?

Thanks very much for any advice.
The Rookie
Did they cash the original cheque? you imply they did. I'm no expert in this but believe it may be relevant!

Simon
Jack C
Yes I belive the origional was cashed as they have not just returned the origional but instead written me a new one from the HMCS Ipswich Fixed Penalty Office.
andy_foster
For an endorsable fixed penalty notice , you must send your licence (both parts if photocard) so that it can be endorsed.
This should be clearly explained on the form/notice. Regardless of what advice you were given by the muppet on the front desk, you have not complied with the fixed penalty procedure and are therefore liable to be prosecuted for the substantive offence.

That said, you may be able to argue that the court should impose the same penalty (£60, 3 points, no costs) as you were mislead by the incorrect advice and should be entitled to the equivalent of the fixed penalty that you thought you had accepted.
Jack C
But surely me giving my licience to the police officer at the station was surrendering my licience to the police. What they then do with it is their responsibilty? I have done everything I am legally required to do and have proof that I have surrendered my licience (statement of witness)? I suppose that wouldn't stand in a court though. I have contacted the FPN office and have been told somebody will phone me back.

Isnt it the responsibility of the officer to take my licence when presented to them at the station regardless if i accept the fpn or want to go to court? In that case wouldnt it mean I would have no case to answer to in court?
jeffreyarcher
Is your local police station in Scotland? If so, that would explain why they cocked it up, as ypu are not allowed to name a police station on Scotland for dealing with provisional FPNs.
In any case, the copper at the pull should have retained your licence.
Or, did he issue a provisional FPN, rather than a proper FPN, which he should have done because you produced your licence (unless you didn't produce both parts).

In any case, I think that this one is worth bouncing off a specialist road traffic solicitor. The correct procedures have clearly not been followed, resulting in manifest prejudice to the accused.

In DPP v Holden it was held that deficiences in a COFP (which is not a FPN) did not provide a defence to the susbstantive charge, as long as there wasn't bad faith on the part of the prosecutor or prejudice to the accused.

Even if it doesn't provide a defence to the susbstantive charge, if the magistrates don't agree to the £60 + no costs, there is clearly prejudice to the accused.
Jack C
My local police station is in lowestoft and I was issused the FPN just outside Ipswich. At the roadside I only produced my photocard part of the licence but produced both parts, my mot and insurance to the police station.

I have just dug out the statement of witness I was given when I produced at the station and would like to post it up on here but am unsure how to?

I spoke to the CTO today regarding the matter, I was told they have it on record that no documents were produced at the roadside or at a police station. Which is why the matter has been passed to court. I have evidence to proove I have produced everything required. Would it be wise to write a letter to the CTO with a copy of the evidence to suggest I have done everything required of me? Or would it be best to seek legal advice before offering any correspondence on my part?
The Rookie
No point now at all....wait and present it all to the magistrates, art6 of the ECHR would be breached if you recieved a higher penalty, including costs, that you should have as you clearly tried to satisfy the FPN.

Simon
Jack C
Should I cash the returned cheque or leave it?
keyhole
Jack - how many points do you have already? If 3 more takes you over the top, you have to go to court....
The Rookie
Cash it....you have the letters that showed intent.

As you were given an FPN (different to a CoFP from the scammers which I think is what Keyhole is thinking of) I would assume you have less than 9 points.

Simon
Jack C
Licence is clean, or was up untill I got cought by them. Which is why im quite happy to accept the 3 points.

I have heard a few differing opinions from people regarding cashing the cheque, If I do this it wont show that I no longer wish to accept the FPN?

I am also considering going to the police station to ask for the cctv footage of that date and time as evidence I went there. I obviously wont do this untill i have been served with the summons.

I have been looking a little closer at it and quoting directly from the Fixed Penalty Notice, “You have been required to produce your driving licence within 7 days. If when you do so it meets the necessary requirements AND you are prepared to surrender it the Police will take no further action in respect of this Offence provided you then pay within 28 Days the sum of £60 to the address shown”.

As I have satisfied both of these points in surrendering my licence and paying the fine they shouldnt be able to reqest my licence for a second time to add points to it, or am i getting a bit ahead of myself here and that just means no further action other than the 3 points being added can be taken?
Thanks
Jack C
Hi,

Today i have recieved a phone call from a lady at the CTO informing me that in reply to my phone call they are willing to give me 2 weeks to send in my licience to be endorsed with the 3 points. I told her that it states on the front of the FPN that once the licence is surrenderd no further action will be taken. I also told her that I surrendered etc and what is then done to my licence after this is their perogative. She then went on the inform me that I didnt surrender my licence I mearly produced it and due to this she would be willing to allow me to send my licence to them to be endorsed. I would like to see what qualifications she has to tell me this as it all seems rather made up.

After me telling her that I have done everything required of me about 5 times and her giving the same answer about only producing it she seemed to get rather irate with me.

She said that the offence hasnt been punished by points so it will go to court if i dont send my licience off.

What I want to know is if she is just trying it on as she knows she has no ground to stand on and is just trying to get me to send my licence in? Its been done before by these people and im sure will be done again.

I get the impression they are just trying it on.

I told her to put all this in writing and that I want to seek legal advice before taking any action.

If I contest this and it does go to court will I be likely to get higher points and fine if found guilty as I am not showing willing to accept the points as they have been offered to me again?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.