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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
mercedes5
the met police sent me a nip on the 31st may.
The certificate of service section (that must be signed on the police copy) states "i hereby certify that on the above date i served the addressee shown above with the form me which this is a true copy by sending the said form to him/her by first class post collecte by the royal mail from the met police........"
FALSE
I have followed advice from other threads & kept all docs. Including the envelope which has postage paid 0022. -2nd class.
Is this grounds to dispute on a technicality.?
I will post a copy of the nip tomorrow.
Merc5
X
andy_foster
It's not a statement unless it's signed.

Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and then post the Wizard's output back here to enable us to help you.
mercedes5
thanks andy.
I'm on the web via my mobile. The nip wizard exceeds it memory capacity.
I won't be able to complete the wizard until tomorrow.
The nip says the police copy is signed am i entitled to a signed copy?
mercedes5
I have attached a copy of the NIP.




My NIP wizard results were:

1) Yes - The Metropolitan Police
2) Yes - 31/05/07
3) Yes
4) Yes - but posted 2nd class
5) Yes
6) Yes
7) England
2020Hindsight
It would only be relevant is you were to claim that you had never received the NIP and you got taken to court for s172, and the police presented the statement as evidence.
At which point you'd have to explain how you didn't get the NIP, yet know it was sent 2nd class, not 1st class....

So you'd have to admit guilt to s172 and perjury before you could use it as technicality.....
andy_foster
QUOTE (mercedes5 @ Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 18:15) *
My NIP wizard results were:

1) Yes - The Metropolitan Police
2) Yes - 31/05/07
3) Yes
4) Yes - but posted 2nd class
5) Yes
6) Yes
7) England


Err, what were the questions?

N.B. A properly completed NIP Wizard looks something like this (<-click)
Lynnzer
QUOTE (2020Hindsight @ Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 18:52) *
It would only be relevant is you were to claim that you had never received the NIP and you got taken to court for s172, and the police presented the statement as evidence.
At which point you'd have to explain how you didn't get the NIP, yet know it was sent 2nd class, not 1st class....

So you'd have to admit guilt to s172 and perjury before you could use it as technicality.....

The onlu use this is to you is if you decide to not respond. They usually send out a duplicate by first class post in that case, but who knows, they might not.........
If they didn't and you went to court then they would have to prove service to you if you contested that it wasn't received. Without first class post at the very least they wouldn't be able to do this.
BUT, this is not a recommendation, just a fact!!!!!!!!!
MAGOO
QUOTE (mercedes5 @ Mon, 18 Jun 2007 - 23:26) *
I have followed advice from other threads & kept all docs. Including the envelope which has postage paid 0022. -2nd class.


you might find that although the cost of postage was 22p it might not be 2nd class. businesses and organisations who frank and to a certain extent sort mail can recieve discounts of up to 8p per item. hence 22p might still be first class - you could do with checking this somehow. good luck
nemo
QUOTE (MAGOO @ Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 20:49) *
you might find that although the cost of postage was 22p it might not be 2nd class. businesses and organisations who frank and to a certain extent sort mail can recieve discounts of up to 8p per item. hence 22p might still be first class - you could do with checking this somehow. good luck

The current standard first class letter postage rate is 32p. Whilst the scammers are undoubtedly very busy and keeping Royal Mail gainfully employed, as far as I am aware, the normal bulk discount they receive for franked post is 2p only.

Even if the scammers did receive 8p per item discount, the OP's franked mark of 22p still falls short of the going rate for first class letter post..
The Rookie
Indeed it sounds like it was sent second class, however is the OP the RK (who's NIP must be sent first class) or someone else named, the first NIP in the chain must be sent first class, subsequant NIP's can be sent second class.

To summarise, if the OP is the RK the NIP has invalid service, so he should name himself as required, pointing out the invalid service using a modified RAC letter, if he's not, the small error (which may be corrected on the Police copy - we can't say) would not IMHO prove fatal.

Simon
mercedes5
Sorry guys, here is the full NIP wizard details.

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - The Metropolitan Police
Date of the offence: - May 2007
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Camden Rd west of Williamson St W/B N7
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The first i was aware i had been clocked for speeding was when i recieved the NIP. It is the only time i have been to this area and i do not recall seeing ant fixed cameras or any other types.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v2.2.3: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:37:47 +0100

Thank you for all your responses.

Hi the rookie,

i am the registered keeper. So does that invalidate it?

x
The Rookie
The NIP to the registered keeper has to be served by special or first class delivery, if, as it looks like, this was sent second class then it has not been 'served' in accordance with the requirements, and therefore the NIP is invalid. (DON'T LOOSE THE ENVELOPE!) so you cannot (should not) be charged with (or if you are, then found guilty of) the substantive charge of speeding.

However there is nothing thats says the S172 request is invalidated by this, so you still need to tell them who was driving.

Simon
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