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morayflyfisher
As a new member who has been caught by a camera,i need some advice please.
Firstly I am alleged that I was doing 76mph in on the A9 in tayside scotland in a 5oMPH.i dispute this as i have a road angel and i am well aware of this cameras placement out of all cameras in UK.bearing this in mind I received that the offence occured on the 18th April 2007 and I received the NIP on the 18th May 2007 which is a total of 30 days after.
On my DVLA V5 it clearly shows that I am the registered keeper and my address is correct aswell as my name.I sent a letter and spoke to the ticket office and they say they have complied within the law and i asked for photos and colaberation of the camera and they sent a copy of certificate and also 1 picture of the car which you cant read the number plate and a blow up so you can see the number plate.When speaking to the ticket office i received snippets of information which didnt tally with logic or truth and have looked into this subject and been back to the camera and it is on a bend and covers the other side of the road and could be triggered by cars on that side,also the number of the camera is hardly viewable so it could be a different one,where the camera is it is on a bend and not a straight road and also they sent the NIP well over 14 days saying they sent it to motability finance in bristol as dvla has them down on their records as the owners.i contacted motability and had them send the V5 to me and it shows my name ,my address as the registered keeper so how can they say that DVLA has another address for the registered keeper when the V5 says Its me and has my address.
I am prepared to fight this all the way as I have no points and dont believe that i was speeding like they allege.
can you help
thankyou
Mad Mick V
Motability runs the hire purchase scheme and the hire scheme. You never own the car for the latter therefore any NIP would go to the Motability people first who would then name you as the hirer.

Now if you participate in the hire purchase/financing scheme then I would have thought that "ownership" is vested in you and the DVLA details should relate to you not Motability. Therefore you should have been the first and only recipient of the NIP as the registered keeper.

Sounds like someone at Motability has goofed.

I take it that you were not in an accident or stopped by the police when a verbal NIP could have been given. If not then the police have to act with reasonable diligence to ascertain the name and address of the accused. The exception to the 14 day rule is as follows-

The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

3) Failure to comply with the requirement of section 1(1) of this Act is not a bar to the conviction of the accused in a case where the court is satisfied�"
    (a) that neither the name and address of the accused nor the name and address of the registered keeper, if any, could with reasonable diligence have been ascertained in time for a summons or, as the case may be, a complaint to be served or for a notice to be served or sent in compliance with the requirement, or
    (b) that the accused by his own conduct contributed to the failure.
MDB
hi,

you were caught by the same force as me! i was caught near pitlochry doing 83 in a 70 in March and i am fighting it all the way with them because i never got the first NIP, i got one 42 days after the alleged offence which was stamped with "copy" (second one they sent out), so i am currently in a battle with them! Be prepared to be bombarded with letters from them! i certainly am at the moment!

oh, maybe it's an idea to send the NIP back naming the driver in the S172 part because if they don't get you on speeding they can get you on failure to furnish the driver.

Were you caught by a fixed camera on the A9? i travel from Edinburgh and take the Dalwhinnie turn off in the Highlands and between Edinburgh and there there are 2 fixed cameras on either side of the road (at different points a long it though, the one i hate is the one which is really hard to see as you're travelling North and it's almost placed behind a sign giving details of tourist attractions, just after Bankfoot i think). I was caught by a van!

good luck with your fight :>

M.
jeffreyarcher
Ownership of the vehicle is irrelevent.
It is the Registered Keeper, as per the DVLA records, who must be sent the NIP within the 14 days.
Assuming that there hasn't been a recent change in RK, then failure to do so is a bar to conviction (absent a couple of other exceptions).
Any defects with the NIP does not absolve you of ypur S172 obligation to name the driver.
Rev-head
What stretch of road were you caught on?...Tayside is were i live ..so trying to understand your camera idea about been on the other side of the road??
morayflyfisher
hi all and thankyou for your replies.just to clarify them all.First of all on the V5 it states that I am the registered keeper and it has my own home address on it which shows the DVLA has this as the adress aswell so it should have come to me first and nobody else.next the camera in question is at ballinluig coming from inverness to perth road.it is on a bend and covers also the other side of the road which raises a question that because of the coverage it could be triggered by a car on the opposite side of the road.i am fully prepared to fight it as it was well over the 14 days and I should have received the nip first and nothing to do with motability.Alos in the second letter it states that the registered keepers say I was the driver of the vehicle but how can they say this as there is also a named driver who could have been driving and not me.anyway you look at it they are out of the 14 days by 16 days and with my name and address on the V5 being quite clear they should not have needed to write or send anything other than to me at that address which is on the DVLA computer records.your thoughts?
MDB
You should return the NIP naming the driver of the alleged offence and attach a letter saying that you didn't get it within 14 days, and state that your address is the same as the DVLA.

To be honest with you, at ballinluig i don't think the fixed cameras there are for both sides of the road, there are 2 there, one as you're travelling North towards Inverness and the other as you are travelling towards Perth, both at different sections of the juntions there. Can you get any idea of the direction the car was driving from the photos they sent to you? I may be wrong about the cameras though, maybe they are for both sides of the road but it doesn't look like it smile.gif

Did you see it flash? are you sure it couldn't have been a mobile van that caught you?

I actually forgot about the ones there! i thought there were only two, must be three on wither side of the road now!

M.
MDB
I forgot to say,

the reason i say about a van is because my alleged offence takes place on the dual carriage way at pitlochry. This dual part starts after the ballinluig juntion.

The bend i thought was southbound (bends left)?

M.
morayflyfisher
hi MDB
yes it was a fixed camera heading south on the bend and there is one on either side your right there.the thing is where the one heading south is on that bend it covers the other side aswell not for actually catching speeders but just the way it is located.i understand thatit should be on a straight road and covering that bit only which this one isnt and because of the spread of the picture it takes it could be sparked by a car on the other side but takes the picture of you instead.
i did return the NIP and explained it to them and they come back with alot of rubbish so i am just going to go to court with it all as they are well out of date and the information they keep saying about is all mixed up and when they told me that they use what is on the dvla computer for sending out the nip with it being on that and its my address they have no excuse for sending it late or to send it anywhere else but to me.like everyone says if you just give in they are laughing and if you challenge it, they still have to do their bit under the law which is the 14 day rule and they Im afraid failed in this instance as it was 30 days no matter where they sent it first as I am the registered keeper and my address is correct on the dvla computer so if they want to send it elsewhere when details are right then they made a mistake to my advantage as I see it.Looking forward to going to court and see them.will wait and see what happens now.Pictures are also interesting waiting for more to arrive.best of luck with yours
morayflyfisher
forgot to say also when i passed the other day the sign for the camera was down and on ground and by law it must be in view at least 1km from the camera.another point worth looking at.all mobile cameras should have signs out and not hidden.how many do it!
MDB
Hi,

it will be interesting to see how this pans out, keep me updated please becaues i am thinking that maybe i will have to go to court over this, are you going to court in Dundee or don't you know yet? i think if i do have to go to court i am going to see if i can get it moved to Edinburgh or where i am from in the Highlands. I just sent a letter to them on Tuesday which they would have received on Wednesday, just waiting to see what sort of rubbish i get back from them, thank goodness i have evidence of bad postal service as the same month i never got some important letters, so hopefully it'll stand in my favour.

I drive up and down the M90 and A9 all the time (about every fortnight), have done for the past 4 years and in March that was my first time being caught, where were they all the other times LOL?!?!

Up and down the A9 there are blue signs in think saying that mobile cameras may be operating, i am not sure but maybe that covers them for when they are just there and no other signs have been put out because that day i saw no signs placed anywhere saying that mobile vans were operating!

It's intestesting about the fixed camera there catching driver's on the other side of the road, i have never ever ever thought of this. I don't know what it was that caught me, i mean the device used and i would be clueless if they told me what it was exactly as i am not really clued up on that apart from the fixed ones.

Just defaintely remember to fill in S172 no matter what smile.gif

M.
morayflyfisher
yes i filleed it in same day and sent that off.you can ask what camera took the photos and also ask for when it was last colabarated and by whom and also ask for a copy of the photos taken.
dont know where the case will be yet still waiting to hear about it all
jeffreyarcher
Morayflyfisher,

Please use punctuation and spacing; it makes your posts very difficult to read.

You haven't confirmed that the last change in RK (to you) was not recent.

Also, if the DVLA have given the police the wrong details, that is an excuse for them exceeding the 14 days.

QUOTE (morayflyfisher @ Sat, 2 Jun 2007 - 12:23) *
Alos in the second letter it states that the registered keepers say I was the driver of the vehicle but how can they say this as there is also a named driver who could have been driving and not me.

They are not saying that you were the actual driver; Motability are giving such 'information as in their power to give', i.e. they are essentially 'passing the buck' to you.
It is then up to you to either 'fess up, or name someone else.

QUOTE (morayflyfisher @ Sat, 2 Jun 2007 - 13:55) *
and by law it must be in view at least 1km from the camera.

Not true.
morayflyfisher
Having just fought a speeding NIP and just had the trial here in scotland for supossedly doing 76 in a 50mph with photos etc.I would recommend anyone to contact roadtrafficlaw.com who handled my case very professionally and won for me when all thought was lost.case was deserted at the trial.yes it did cost for a solicitor but believe me it was well worth the look on the faces of those accusers and a matter of principle not to just pay up for something you didnt do.If all questioned these NIP,s and believed in not guilty till proven guilty it would make it a lot harder for the system and would soon get clogged up and get rid of these cameras as money making machines.I did and I won and still have my clean licence thanks to Mr Walker of roadtrafficlaw.com
how much you value your licence is down to you, but it costs a phone call and you will certainly get advice.
andy_foster
You've started a duplicate thread!
jeffreyarcher
thumbsup.gif
QUOTE (morayflyfisher @ Fri, 30 Nov 2007 - 22:38) *
when all thought was lost.

Nobody here said that the case was lost, inter alia;
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Sat, 2 Jun 2007 - 02:13) *
It is the Registered Keeper, as per the DVLA records, who must be sent the NIP within the 14 days.
Assuming that there hasn't been a recent change in RK, then failure to do so is a bar to conviction (absent a couple of other exceptions).

You may have felt that the point ws being laboured, but scores, perhaps hundreds of people have come on here adamant that the 14 day rule has not been complied with. In very many cases it has. Many are adamant that they are the registered keeper; it often turns out that they are not.

So why did they desert the case, was it the 14 day rule or something else?
morayflyfisher
apart from the Nip there was question of actual measurement of the lines taken in the pictures and speed travelled,plus colabaration certificates,and a whole lot more and it was better to desert case than to air all points which would be detremental to other speeding cases for the law than to air them in court so it was better to keep them secret and desert.I would still recommend mr walker who really knows his stuff.
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