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tobes
Hi all,

i've been reading this forum for the last couple of days after searching the internet since receiving my first ever parking ticket on saturday and would love to get some info on understanding it all.

I received the ticket for parking on double yellow lines on an 'access' road to a derelict building that is cordoned off 9in other words the access road is not used for anything but parking on on matchdays - NB - I and many others have parked on this 'access' road for nearly 2 years.

i've 2 points that i feel should invalidate the ticket

1/ the address given is that of the main dual carriage way running parallel to the access road - i feel i wasn't parked on this road but another to the side of it.

2/ the name of the road is spelt Harlborough on the PCN when in fact it should be Harborough.

any help on this would be much appreciated


i'm not sure on the state of the yellow lines but will be checking on my way home from work tonight.
legaladviser
QUOTE (tobes @ Fri, 4 May 2007 - 11:02) *
Hi all,

i've been reading this forum for the last couple of days after searching the internet since receiving my first ever parking ticket on saturday and would love to get some info on understanding it all.

I received the ticket for parking on double yellow lines on an 'access' road to a derelict building that is cordoned off 9in other words the access road is not used for anything but parking on on matchdays - NB - I and many others have parked on this 'access' road for nearly 2 years.

i've 2 points that i feel should invalidate the ticket

1/ the address given is that of the main dual carriage way running parallel to the access road - i feel i wasn't parked on this road but another to the side of it.

2/ the name of the road is spelt Harlborough on the PCN when in fact it should be Harborough.

any help on this would be much appreciated


i'm not sure on the state of the yellow lines but will be checking on my way home from work tonight.

Let's see the PCN.
tobes
how do i attach?
evilTone
QUOTE (tobes @ Fri, 4 May 2007 - 14:49) *
how do i attach?


do this
tobes
tobes
any help/info would be much appreciated
eddie1234567
QUOTE (tobes @ Tue, 8 May 2007 - 08:59) *
any help/info would be much appreciated



There are no grounds, just a 01 with "see insert for details", IMHO the insert doesn't form part of the PCN so it isn't telling you the grounds on which the ticket is issued. Also possible vague locus, are there other Access roads onto this road with Double Yellows on them, also taking it down couple of inteligence point "I couldn't see any road, building, business, street signs saying 'Dyl on Access Road'

Was there an insert, can you post a copy of the insert. The council may argue that the insert provides all information possible, but there is a possibility of prejudice, what happens if the PA forgets to put an insert in the envelope, what happens if he had run out of inserts.

You may just cause the council a major headache as all there tickets, if the insert doesn't form part of the PCN, are invalid, give others a chance to comment on the insert issue and eventually let the press know of the problem.

Section 66
(3) A penalty charge notice must state—
    (a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
Teufel
the PCN is invalid

it states

'this ticket must be returned with your payment'

there is no such requirement in law and the council has no powers to add
such an additional obligation

see the moses/barnet JR on the strict requirements of a PCN to comply with the law

in addition have they provided a means to identify what contravention 01 is ?

if not the pcn is invalid for that as well

with regard to location the pcn does say access road - this is probably
sufficient though the road layout may make it not so

with regard to the mispelling i think this is certainly worth a challenge
though you may be unlucky
tobes
thanks for the replies

the insert states that Code 01 is parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (tobes @ Tue, 8 May 2007 - 10:20) *
thanks for the replies

the insert states that Code 01 is parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.


Good catch on returning the ticket.

Was the insert attached to the ticket, can the insert be classed as part of the pcn
tobes
it wasn't attached to the ticket but was folded up with it inside the windscreen sticker
Teufel
there is an adjudication which says this is acceptabel provided the pcn
refers to it and it is attached or in the envelope
tobes
should I just pay up and pay for the councils embarrasing attempt at a bus station or do you think I have a good chance of appeal?
Teufel
i woudl appeal - you have a better than 50% chance of winnning

plus the couuncil may make more errors on the notice to owner (NtO)
and rejection of your appeal to this
Ziltro
QUOTE (tobes @ Tue, 8 May 2007 - 11:04) *
should I just pay up

That's exactly what they want. If you don't fight then the misery they inflict on everyone will continue.

I don't think they can up the penalty just because you challenge them.
Teufel
you can only challenge by awaiting an nto - in which case you will
have lost the chance of paying the 50% discount on the PCN (14 days)
muckychimney
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Tue, 8 May 2007 - 10:11) *
QUOTE (tobes @ Tue, 8 May 2007 - 08:59) *
any help/info would be much appreciated



There are no grounds, just a 01 with "see insert for details", IMHO the insert doesn't form part of the PCN so it isn't telling you the grounds on which the ticket is issued. Also possible vague locus, are there other Access roads onto this road with Double Yellows on them, also taking it down couple of inteligence point "I couldn't see any road, building, business, street signs saying 'Dyl on Access Road'

Was there an insert, can you post a copy of the insert. The council may argue that the insert provides all information possible, but there is a possibility of prejudice, what happens if the PA forgets to put an insert in the envelope, what happens if he had run out of inserts.

You may just cause the council a major headache as all there tickets, if the insert doesn't form part of the PCN, are invalid, give others a chance to comment on the insert issue and eventually let the press know of the problem.

Section 66
(3) A penalty charge notice must state��"
    (a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;


The above section 66 does that refer to the Road Traffic Act? and is Section 66 legal outside of London?
Teufel
rta 1991 s66

originally decrim parking was only in london - as it has been
taken up by other councils the law has been extended to apply to them
by statutory instrument - so smae law applies everywhere
Teufel
i have been unbale to find the adjudication on codes - im sure i was not dreaming

just a code is certianly not compliant RTA 1991

a description w/o code is compliant (IMLTHO)

a code with a slip describing codes - not compliant although if PCN expressly
refers to slip then it may be - since the mose/barnet JR has now set a high
barrier for complaince then i think this is worth an appeal (any previous adjudication
being non binding)

thanks to eddie1234567 for input on this
Box Clever
QUOTE (Teufel @ Wed, 9 May 2007 - 13:35) *
just a code is certianly not compliant RTA 1991

a description w/o code is compliant (IMLTHO)

a code with a slip describing codes - not compliant although if PCN expressly
refers to slip then it may be - since the mose/barnet JR has now set a high
barrier for complaince then i think this is worth an appeal (any previous adjudication
being non binding)

It surely relates to the requirement in the act for the PCN to state:

(a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

Numerical contravention codes on their own are meaingless. A written description (and/or a photograph) of the contravention is required to establish the grounds.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (Teufel @ Tue, 8 May 2007 - 10:15) *
it states

'this ticket must be returned with your payment'

there is no such requirement in law and the council has no powers to add
such an additional obligation


Just been looking through old docs and this sprung to mind. The NTO and the form sent to me were the same bit of paper: Letter on front and Appeal on back (I made copies, but not everyone has the facilities to do this).

With what Tuefel says and what has been said on the 2 date issue in relation to the date of issue on the payment slip and you you loose the ability to reference it when you returned (one of numerous points raised).

Is this another avenue to be pursued with you having to return "your" letter
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