Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Loading/unloading
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
pennyminstrel
My partner teaches at an art college in London. The other day he was loading some large stone sculptures into a van with students. There are double yellow lines all round the college, but they had the van parked as partly into an alleyway leading to the doors at the back of the college with just the front protruding onto yellow lines. While they where actually loading the back of the van, a PCN was attached to the front.


I have found a page on the London Council's website which states that there is an exemption where it is necessary to load/unload heavy or bulky goods as follows:

'When a vehicle stops in order to load or unload goods it is often exempt from parking regulations. However, use of the vehicle must be necessary, and it must be moved immediately loading has finished. Taking heavy or bulky goods to or from a vehicle is normally included in the exemption – as is having a large number of items - too many for one trip.

There is no exemption for shopping, regardless of how briefly the vehicle stops. If pre-purchased goods are being collected, this may be exempt. The unloading process covers taking goods to the place in the building where they are to go but does not extend to sorting them out or arranging them once there.

All commercial deliveries and collections (including multi-drop and couriers) are included in the exemption. Reasonable time is allowed for the checking of paperwork too - however, as soon as the delivery is finished, the vehicle must be moved. Builders dropping off or picking up tools at a site are exempt, but the vehicle must be moved immediately the loading or unloading is finished. If it is essential for a vehicle to be parked nearby while working (e.g. a glazier's vehicle) then you should contact the local council to make special arrangements.

Loading time is usually restricted to twenty minutes. If more time is required contact the local council for permission (a 'waiver') in advance.'




However it does not cite the traffic regulation allowing this, which I would prefer to be able to quote when appealing the notice.




I've looked through various Acts but can't find the necessary, can anyone tell me where to look?

Thanks!


eddie1234567
QUOTE (pennyminstrel @ Thu, 3 May 2007 - 11:41) *
My partner teaches at an art college in London. The other day he was loading some large stone sculptures into a van with students. There are double yellow lines all round the college, but they had the van parked as partly into an alleyway leading to the doors at the back of the college with just the front protruding onto yellow lines. While they where actually loading the back of the van, a PCN was attached to the front.


I have found a page on the London Council's website which states that there is an exemption where it is necessary to load/unload heavy or bulky goods as follows:

'When a vehicle stops in order to load or unload goods it is often exempt from parking regulations. However, use of the vehicle must be necessary, and it must be moved immediately loading has finished. Taking heavy or bulky goods to or from a vehicle is normally included in the exemption ��" as is having a large number of items - too many for one trip.

There is no exemption for shopping, regardless of how briefly the vehicle stops. If pre-purchased goods are being collected, this may be exempt. The unloading process covers taking goods to the place in the building where they are to go but does not extend to sorting them out or arranging them once there.

All commercial deliveries and collections (including multi-drop and couriers) are included in the exemption. Reasonable time is allowed for the checking of paperwork too - however, as soon as the delivery is finished, the vehicle must be moved. Builders dropping off or picking up tools at a site are exempt, but the vehicle must be moved immediately the loading or unloading is finished. If it is essential for a vehicle to be parked nearby while working (e.g. a glazier's vehicle) then you should contact the local council to make special arrangements.

Loading time is usually restricted to twenty minutes. If more time is required contact the local council for permission (a 'waiver') in advance.'




However it does not cite the traffic regulation allowing this, which I would prefer to be able to quote when appealing the notice.




I've looked through various Acts but can't find the necessary, can anyone tell me where to look?

Thanks!




What you have, that's it. There is nothing in legislation as such to say this. It will be written into the TRO/TMO for the road in question.

Unless there were double yellow blips on the kerb and signs to the contrary abut loading just write appealing that loading was going on, get the college to give a letter saying as much (they council usually ask for paper work to prove delivery/collections, you don't need it but it helps).
Teufel
do a search on loading - lots of cases and info

the key case is PATAS jane packer v westminster

the website and leaflet info from councils is often misleading

the TRO/TMO can restrict the loading expemption but only in a way that is fair
and reasonable
pennyminstrel
Thanks for your replies eddie and teufel.

If we were to make an appeal based on the information on the website and it was turned down, would we be allowed to subsequently make a further appeal based on the more detailed grounds using Packer v Westminster afterwards?

I only ask this because obviously its going to be quite a quick and simple matter to base it on the council website info and we're going through a particularly traumatic time with my parents at the moment and I'd like to avoid having to spend the time on the more detailed research it if possible.


Many thanks for all the time you guys spend on this website helping us all.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (pennyminstrel @ Fri, 4 May 2007 - 10:24) *
Thanks for your replies eddie and teufel.

If we were to make an appeal based on the information on the website and it was turned down, would we be allowed to subsequently make a further appeal based on the more detailed grounds using Packer v Westminster afterwards?

I only ask this because obviously its going to be quite a quick and simple matter to base it on the council website info and we're going through a particularly traumatic time with my parents at the moment and I'd like to avoid having to spend the time on the more detailed research it if possible.


Many thanks for all the time you guys spend on this website helping us all.


Unfortunately it can be a lengthy process if they reject first appeal. If the college can provide a letter it can save a lot of time

First Informal appeal to council they can accept or reject: If they accept it ends here.

If they reject the Informal Appeal then in 28 days the owner/registered keeper (or who appears to be the owner/registered keeper) will get a Notice To Owner saying that the full amount is now payable.
(if it is a hire van, then it may be worth stating in the letter to the council you wish to be treated as the owner/registered keeper for this matter. Otherwise a hire company could slap on an admin fee if they get any of the forms)

You can then make Formal Appeal to the council: Re-stating the information on Informal Appeal with another copy of the letter from the college: The council can either accept or reject this. Once again if they accept it this time that's an end to it (usually another 28 days)

If they reject they will send you a Notice of Rejection with details on how to appeal to the Parking Adjudicator. On this form you re-state the appeal, along with a copy of the letter from the college. You can have a written adjudication or a personal hearing. (this can take a few months)

At this stage with the case teufel quoted and a letter from the college it should be cancelled.


This is quiet lengthy process, but if you have a letter from the college then hopefully the council would see sense and cancel the ticket on first informal appeal. But on all appeals quote all information on loading and packer.

If they don't cancel on first appeal and send a Notice To Owner then come back for some more moral support as well as the fact that councils are still screwing up their notice to owners and this will also give more ammunition to take to the adjudicator.
legaladviser
QUOTE (pennyminstrel @ Thu, 3 May 2007 - 11:41) *
My partner teaches at an art college in London. The other day he was loading some large stone sculptures into a van with students. There are double yellow lines all round the college, but they had the van parked as partly into an alleyway leading to the doors at the back of the college with just the front protruding onto yellow lines. While they where actually loading the back of the van, a PCN was attached to the front.


I have found a page on the London Council's website which states that there is an exemption where it is necessary to load/unload heavy or bulky goods as follows:

'When a vehicle stops in order to load or unload goods it is often exempt from parking regulations. However, use of the vehicle must be necessary, and it must be moved immediately loading has finished. Taking heavy or bulky goods to or from a vehicle is normally included in the exemption …quot; as is having a large number of items - too many for one trip.

There is no exemption for shopping, regardless of how briefly the vehicle stops. If pre-purchased goods are being collected, this may be exempt. The unloading process covers taking goods to the place in the building where they are to go but does not extend to sorting them out or arranging them once there.

All commercial deliveries and collections (including multi-drop and couriers) are included in the exemption. Reasonable time is allowed for the checking of paperwork too - however, as soon as the delivery is finished, the vehicle must be moved. Builders dropping off or picking up tools at a site are exempt, but the vehicle must be moved immediately the loading or unloading is finished. If it is essential for a vehicle to be parked nearby while working (e.g. a glazier's vehicle) then you should contact the local council to make special arrangements.

Loading time is usually restricted to twenty minutes. If more time is required contact the local council for permission (a 'waiver') in advance.'




However it does not cite the traffic regulation allowing this, which I would prefer to be able to quote when appealing the notice.




I've looked through various Acts but can't find the necessary, can anyone tell me where to look?

Thanks!




Can you post the PCN front and back please? Chances are it may be invalid.
pennyminstrel
Sorry I've been so long getting back to this. Life ain't easy at the moment. But here's the PCN (I hope. I'm new to all this image hosting stuff).






Thanks again
pennyminstrel
Sorry its just beating me this and I haven't got time to play with the image stuff and get it to work. I think I'm just going to have to work on the info from their website and the letter from the college and hope it works. It seems a pretty strong case to me.

Thanks again for help and support everyone. I'll let you know how I get on.
pennyminstrel
Have now sent off the informal challenge based on the council's website info and Packe v Westminster. It says they take up to 3 months to respond, so I'll let you know in due course what the outcome is.

thanks for all your help guys

penny
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.