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Hilly_2007
Hi guys,

Wondered if you could help me. I was caught doing 66 mph in a 50 zone on the A690 (Eastbound) last Tuesday (24th April 2007). Now I passed my test on the 8th May 2005, is the offence that serious to warrant 6 points onto my license? If so Im just short of the 2 years needed and will I need to re-take my test? The NIP arrived this morning and I have 28 days to reply.

Will it work if I send it back on the 8th May (or later) or will the points / fine stand for the date of the incident.

Also, is it worth me persuing things and trying to get off the hook? I haven't seen any visual evidence of me speeding, although I don't think you normally get that when you recieve your NIP do you?
Lynnzer
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 14:33) *
Hi guys,

Wondered if you could help me. I was caught doing 66 mph in a 50 zone on the A690 (Eastbound) last Tuesday (24th April 2007). Now I passed my test on the 8th May 2005, is the offence that serious to warrant 6 points onto my license? If so Im just short of the 2 years needed and will I need to re-take my test? The NIP arrived this morning and I have 28 days to reply.

Will it work if I send it back on the 8th May (or later) or will the points / fine stand for the date of the incident.

Also, is it worth me pursuing things and trying to get off the hook? I haven't seen any visual evidence of me speeding, although I don't think you normally get that when you recieve your NIP do you?

PLEASE complete the NIP Wizard first.
Now, without any further delay give the ticket office a call and ask if the camera in this case was a Gatso. If it was then request identifying photo's (to assist with identification, don't mention evidence at this stage as they don't have to provide evidence but identification photo's are nearly always given).
The send me a PM asap. I'm working on the Gatso issue right now and have every confidence in a successful outcome in Sunderland Magistrates court.
Just so you know, the date of the offence is the date that the points are awarded. In the meantime don't do a thing until you have sought further advice from here and certainly don't send back the NIP until day 27 by Special Delivery.
Hilly_2007
Thanks Lynnzer,

Sorry about not completing the NIP Wizard as well, here are my answers:

(Suggested to pursue a PACE Witness Statement)

These are the answers you've given so far:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

I presume a GATSO is a fixed speed camera. However I have been told (and to be honest I haven't seen any) that there are no fixed speed cameras in County Durham, however apparently I've just been told by a colleague that it was just in Tyne & Wear. Either way the camera that caught me must of been a mobile one because I travel the road to work every day and there is definately no fixed speed cameras.

EDIT: I can't fill in the top of the NIP Wizard at this moment in time because I don't have the NIP on me at the current time, but I will at 6.00pm tonight
Lynnzer
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 15:00) *
Thanks Lynnzer,

Sorry about not completing the NIP Wizard as well, here are my answers:

(Suggested to pursue a PACE Witness Statement)

These are the answers you've given so far:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

I presume a GATSO is a fixed speed camera. However I have been told (and to be honest I haven't seen any) that there are no fixed speed cameras in County Durham, however apparently I've just been told by a colleague that it was just in Tyne & Wear. Either way the camera that caught me must of been a mobile one because I travel the road to work every day and there is definately no fixed speed cameras.

EDIT: I can't fill in the top of the NIP Wizard at this moment in time because I don't have the NIP on me at the current time, but I will at 6.00pm tonight

Yeah I know there are no fixed Gatso along that stretch. I know the road very well. However, there are camera vans out there with them inside. AND IT'S AGAINST THEIR TYPE APPROVAL. So just give the ticket office that call. They're open for a while yet. Then if it's a Gatso we can start to build up something between us here.
By the way, 66 in a 50 shouldn't warrant 6 points. The road doesn't really need a 50 limit in my personal opinion. It's pretty much a perfectly safe road at 60 but then again Northumbria police wouldn't make so much money from that would they?
Hilly_2007
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 15:19) *
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 15:00) *
Thanks Lynnzer,

Sorry about not completing the NIP Wizard as well, here are my answers:

(Suggested to pursue a PACE Witness Statement)

These are the answers you've given so far:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

I presume a GATSO is a fixed speed camera. However I have been told (and to be honest I haven't seen any) that there are no fixed speed cameras in County Durham, however apparently I've just been told by a colleague that it was just in Tyne & Wear. Either way the camera that caught me must of been a mobile one because I travel the road to work every day and there is definately no fixed speed cameras.

EDIT: I can't fill in the top of the NIP Wizard at this moment in time because I don't have the NIP on me at the current time, but I will at 6.00pm tonight

Yeah I know there are no fixed Gatso along that stretch. I know the road very well. However, there are camera vans out there with them inside. AND IT'S AGAINST THEIR TYPE APPROVAL. So just give the ticket office that call. They're open for a while yet. Then if it's a Gatso we can start to build up something between us here.
By the way, 66 in a 50 shouldn't warrant 6 points. The road doesn't really need a 50 limit in my personal opinion. It's pretty much a perfectly safe road at 60 but then again Northumbria police wouldn't make so much money from that would they?

Like I say, I don't have my NIP to hand so I don't have any contact details and if I do ring them what do I ask? Do I ask what type of van was on that stretch of road at that time and did it have a GATSO speed camera inside?

I get back in at 6.00 tonight will it still be open by then?
Lynnzer
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 15:24) *
QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 15:19) *
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 15:00) *
Thanks Lynnzer,

Sorry about not completing the NIP Wizard as well, here are my answers:

(Suggested to pursue a PACE Witness Statement)

These are the answers you've given so far:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

I presume a GATSO is a fixed speed camera. However I have been told (and to be honest I haven't seen any) that there are no fixed speed cameras in County Durham, however apparently I've just been told by a colleague that it was just in Tyne & Wear. Either way the camera that caught me must of been a mobile one because I travel the road to work every day and there is definately no fixed speed cameras.

EDIT: I can't fill in the top of the NIP Wizard at this moment in time because I don't have the NIP on me at the current time, but I will at 6.00pm tonight

Yeah I know there are no fixed Gatso along that stretch. I know the road very well. However, there are camera vans out there with them inside. AND IT'S AGAINST THEIR TYPE APPROVAL. So just give the ticket office that call. They're open for a while yet. Then if it's a Gatso we can start to build up something between us here.
By the way, 66 in a 50 shouldn't warrant 6 points. The road doesn't really need a 50 limit in my personal opinion. It's pretty much a perfectly safe road at 60 but then again Northumbria police wouldn't make so much money from that would they?

Like I say, I don't have my NIP to hand so I don't have any contact details and if I do ring them what do I ask? Do I ask what type of van was on that stretch of road at that time and did it have a GATSO speed camera inside?

I get back in at 6.00 tonight will it still be open by then?

The Central Ticket Office is in Ponteland. Just do a 118118 and find the number. When you get the switchboard ask for the CTO. You will need to give them the case details and ask "can you confirm which type of camera it was that recorded the offence"
If you have an online offence viewing code or something let me know as the site might have all the info I need to help you.
Hilly_2007
Just got in and I'm under the juristiction of Durham Constabulary not Northumbria as you may think.

Here are the answers to the rest of the NIP Wizard:

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Durham Constabulary
Date of the offence: - April 2007
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A690 Road, West Rainton (Eastbound), Co. Durham
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Just another day on my way to work, probably overtaking a number of vehicles on the inside lane.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v2.2.3: Tue, 01 May 2007 18:15:52 +0100
recoveryman36
yup definately durham contstabulary on there in their little mercedes vito sneaky little devils i pass them there nearly every day or on the 167 outside chester park!!!
Hilly_2007
It seems I may be in line for 4 points and a fine from what I have read on the net.
Lynnzer
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 22:54) *
It seems I may be in line for 4 points and a fine from what I have read on the net.

Well, that's the Gatso out of the window (pun).
They don't use them in DCC. Still, there's the ECHR verdict coming along shortly that "should" prove very useful.
Just go with the PWS for now.
In the meantime, write (copy everything & keep postal details of every letter-special delivery of course) and ask them for assistance in identification of the driver. To this end could they please send a copy of the photograph they took at the scene.
Do this around weeks time.
It may very well be pretty clear, and it usually is if it's front facing.
On day 26 send in the PWS by Special (not recorded) delivery to the CTO which used to be in Darlington but will be on the NIP anyway.

You should be aware that currently most defences based on the PWS are getting rolled over in court resulting in differing fines and costs with the associated points added. If you do go this route it should be because you fully agree that you shouldn't have to provide self incriminating evidence to prosecute you in court and will be the subject of an appeal in the case of the O'Halloran result coming through favourably from the European Courts.
It may very well, (bloody well should be) settled within the next couple of weeks anyway so if it is then any resulting prosecution would be more or less thrown out.
nemo
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 22:54) *
It seems I may be in line for 4 points and a fine from what I have read on the net.

For reference (and if ball was played with the scammers), an alleged 66 in a 50 limit would qualify for a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty - £60 and 3 points.
Hilly_2007
QUOTE (nemo @ Wed, 2 May 2007 - 14:26) *
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Tue, 1 May 2007 - 22:54) *
It seems I may be in line for 4 points and a fine from what I have read on the net.

For reference (and if ball was played with the scammers), an alleged 66 in a 50 limit would qualify for a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty - £60 and 3 points.



Really? I thought I was looking at 4 and a fine.

I was in the wrong I know that, but if I reply to the NIP saying it was me will I be provided with evidence, or do I need to ask for evidence before sending back the NIP?
nemo
QUOTE (Hilly_2007 @ Wed, 2 May 2007 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (nemo @ Wed, 2 May 2007 - 14:26) *
For reference (and if ball was played with the scammers), an alleged 66 in a 50 limit would qualify for a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty - £60 and 3 points.


Really? I thought I was looking at 4 and a fine.

I was in the wrong I know that, but if I reply to the NIP saying it was me will I be provided with evidence, or do I need to ask for evidence before sending back the NIP?

Yes, really. 26 mph over the limit in a 50 is the threshold below which a Conditional Offer is applicable. At 66, you are below this threshold and, as such, would qualify for a CoFP. Your reference to 4 points probably comes from the current Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines. These would only apply if you were to contest the allegation in court and be convicted.

With regard to evidence - you are not entitled to any 'evidence' until you are summonsed for the alleged speeding offence and have entered a plea of not guilty. That is a long way down the road from where you are now..

Most (but not all) SCPs respond favourably to a polite request for 'copies of any photographs which may assist with identification of the driver'. Keep any such letter succinct, do not embellish and do not use the word 'evidence'. If you decide to send a letter, make sure you do so well before your 28 day response window closes.
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