FightBack Forums > Home Office approvals for usage of laser vans

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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences

AtW

Sun, 30 May 2004 - 16:10

Last week I may have been zapped by laser van on the bridge over M6 (J14) - they had windows (of the side that faced me) closed. At the time traffic was very heavy and I dont think I was above 80 mph. I've come across with the following information:

"The Home Office approval states that they mustn't be used through glass. They work fine but are not certified to operate through glass. If they are then it's game over for the conviction. I have heard that mobile gatsos have been used from inside a van, again it is not certified to operate in this way."

Source: piston heads forum post

Does it mean that I will have a realistic prospect of beating them in court should the worst happen? And what if they say the windows were open!?? Surely my word won't be trusted

Is it possible that the fact that windows were closed would be seen on their video? Or would that be someone in log book?

chrizm

Sun, 30 May 2004 - 18:45

From my experience of CCTV cameras, I work at a company that install them, you can virtually always tell when they are being filmed through a window as you see a bit of a reflection.

You would have to seek disclosure of the video tape from the scammers.

Go to the sticky page about disclosure, it worked for me!

DW190

Sun, 30 May 2004 - 19:52

ACPO Guidelines confirm Not to be used through Glass:

QUOTE

14.2 Hand-held The hand-held device functions by emitting pulses of infrared laser beams, which are targeted at the vehicle whose speed is being measured.

Measurement of speed is performed by aiming the device at the target vehicle in the area around the registration plate and where necessary pressing the trigger or button. It is important that the beam is held steady on the target area to avoid any 'slip factor'. When sufficient pulses of light have been emitted and have returned, within the in built tolerances and checks, then a reading is displayed on the device. The speed recording can be locked into the display by activating the trigger/button in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions where necessary.

Devices are capable of recording approaching or receding vehicle speeds, this fact being clearly differentiated by the speedmeter.

To assist the operator’s identification of the target vehicle the meters have electronic sighting devices (currently either ‘red dot’ telescopic or ‘reticule sight’ on head up displays), together with audible 'locked-on' tones on some devices.

Operators should bear in mind the device confirms and corroborates their prior personal observations and opinion.

Certain hand-held laser speed detection devices have the ability to establish speeds of vehicles by calculating the time it takes a vehicle to travel over a known distance whilst in the time/distance mode.

The time, distance function must be operated in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions and this Code of Practice.

Laser or optical hand-held devices may be used from within a vehicle provided there are no radio transmissions during the measurement. Any GSM phones must be turned off and any TETRA radios turned off unless they have a transmission inhibit switch, which is activated.

The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors.

The power source must not be taken directly from any vehicle but always from the type approved independent supply.

AtW

Sun, 30 May 2004 - 20:14

I dont think they used handheld - it was van and I think I could see officer with his back turned to me (no tripods or anything), I presume that principles should be the same however as devices as very similar.

But all windows facing me were definately closed (I kept looking at them as I approached and passed it), so I guess they were either breaking their own regulations or doing the other side of motorway (van was more of my side).

Perhaps they were doing the other side of the motorway - traffic there was driving much more freely and thus would be more likely to reach speeds of 85mph+???

So, if I get NIP, then is it worth fighting it? (my last 3 out of 6 points left anyway!)???

The Rookie

Tue, 1 Jun 2004 - 11:26

How do you know you weren't clocked 'from behind' after you had gone past? Could always ask for a copy of the vid under the data protection act (cost you £10), that will tell you!

Simon

AtW

Tue, 1 Jun 2004 - 14:28

QUOTE (The Rookie)

How do you know you weren't clocked 'from behind' after you had gone past?

Don't think it would make sense for them to try to catch people who did see the van and certainly slow down for at least a few miles! I can assure you that from the moment I saw the van on the bridge in front of me I made sure I am not exceeding speed limit anywhere! They definately could not have done me in the back - there is a possibility however that they were trying to do people on the other side of motorway and parked like that intentionally so that its harder to see van from the other side.

Good idea about DPA - I wonder if they have some kind of CCTV inside van which would show clearly whether window is open or not.

Anyway, am I right that so far so good it appears that _IF_ they were doing people through the glass then this "evidence" can be stopped on the grounds of being obtained in violation of their own regulations???

The Rookie

Tue, 1 Jun 2004 - 15:45

Wawickshire nearly always do traffic 'going away' and not towards the van...bit more of a sporting chance!

Simon.

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