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pollyarmo
I am very new to this forum but here goes. I parked in a disable bay for less than 5mins whilst I went into a shop, on a retail park to help my disabled dad carry a heavy item. I didnt display the blue badge which I have cos I knew I would be only minutes. I hadnt seen any sign on the carpark insisting I display the badge. However when we returned to the car a warden from cms uk. ltd had issued a ticket for 'Not displaying a valid badge'. It says I have to pay £50 within 14 days. I, and my father cannot afford this. What can we do?
eddie1234567
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Sun, 18 Mar 2007 - 17:46) *
I am very new to this forum but here goes. I parked in a disable bay for less than 5mins whilst I went into a shop, on a retail park to help my disabled dad carry a heavy item. I didnt display the blue badge which I have cos I knew I would be only minutes. I hadnt seen any sign on the carpark insisting I display the badge. However when we returned to the car a warden from cms uk. ltd had issued a ticket for 'Not displaying a valid badge'. It says I have to pay £50 within 14 days. I, and my father cannot afford this. What can we do?


What will happen if you ignore it is they will go to DVLA and get your dads details and then write to him saying that as the registered keeper he is responsible for the invoice. These are private tickets issued on purported contracts, contracts that only the driver at the time can enter into NOT the registered keeper/owner. Your dad did not park there and reading your post it was your own decision to do so. They can only enforce against the driver and there is no requirement for your dad to say who was driving

So when he gets one of these he only needs to reply along the lines of

QUOTE
I received your letter dated XXXX demanding payment of xx in relation to the above Parking Charge.

Whilst I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration XXXX I did not park in the location stated on the date in question. As I was not the driver, only the registered keeper I did not agree to 'The Terms and Conditions' so this 'Parking Charge Notice' does not apply to me but to the driver of the vehicle at the said time. You must pursue any claim against the driver who entered into a contract for parking with yourselves.

You have no claim against me as the registered keeper and I therefore advise that the Parking Charge be cancelled.

If any further communication is received from your offices or agents, other than to say this charge has been cancelled, will be treated as harrassment and reported to the police

Yours faithfully,


Or a more forceful letter based on Legalpete information

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=175271


Also for more information have a read these threads and read a few other threads on Private Parking

LegalPetes Private Parking Guide

and

BP Thread

They are both excellent starts on Private Parking and will give you all the info you need. After you have read them then come back with any quetions you may still have, although I think they will answer them all for you.
Aginoth
From DirectGov

'Off-street' disabled parking bays such as supermarkets
Most disabled persons' parking bays in off-street car parks - for example, supermarket car parks - are not covered by Blue Badge scheme regulations.

Car parks and parking bays like these are likely to be privately owned and managed by the individual business. The agreement, and any cost to use them, will be between the owner and the motorists/customers.

If you are a disabled motorist (or passenger) and you complain to, for example, a supermarket that a non-disabled motorist has parked in a disabled bay, an employee of the store could ask the driver to move their car from the disabled bay but they will not be in a position to legally insist on it.

If you think that people are unfairly parking in disabled bays, speak or write to the management of the store or car park.

The government (Department for Transport) supports 'Baywatch' - a partnership between several major supermarkets and disability organisations - including the Disabled Drivers' Association. The campaign aims to end the abuse of parking bays put aside for disabled drivers' use.
pollyarmo
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Sun, 18 Mar 2007 - 18:16) *
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Sun, 18 Mar 2007 - 17:46) *
I am very new to this forum but here goes. I parked in a disable bay for less than 5mins whilst I went into a shop, on a retail park to help my disabled dad carry a heavy item. I didnt display the blue badge which I have cos I knew I would be only minutes. I hadnt seen any sign on the carpark insisting I display the badge. However when we returned to the car a warden from cms uk. ltd had issued a ticket for 'Not displaying a valid badge'. It says I have to pay £50 within 14 days. I, and my father cannot afford this. What can we do?


What will happen if you ignore it is they will go to DVLA and get your dads details and then write to him saying that as the registered keeper he is responsible for the invoice. These are private tickets issued on purported contracts, contracts that only the driver at the time can enter into NOT the registered keeper/owner. Your dad did not park there and reading your post it was your own decision to do so. They can only enforce against the driver and there is no requirement for your dad to say who was driving

So when he gets one of these he only needs to reply along the lines of

QUOTE
I received your letter dated XXXX demanding payment of ?xx in relation to the above Parking Charge.

Whilst I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration XXXX I did not park in the location stated on the date in question. As I was not the driver, only the registered keeper I did not agree to 'The Terms and Conditions' so this 'Parking Charge Notice' does not apply to me but to the driver of the vehicle at the said time. You must pursue any claim against the driver who entered into a contract for parking with yourselves.

You have no claim against me as the registered keeper and I therefore advise that the Parking Charge be cancelled.

If any further communication is received from your offices or agents, other than to say this charge has been cancelled, will be treated as harrassment and reported to the police

Yours faithfully,


Or a more forceful letter based on Legalpete information

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=175271


Also for more information have a read these threads and read a few other threads on Private Parking

LegalPetes Private Parking Guide

and

BP Thread

They are both excellent starts on Private Parking and will give you all the info you need. After you have read them then come back with any quetions you may still have, although I think they will answer them all for you.
pollyarmo
Thank you for all your replys. I am still not sure what to do. I am the registered keeper and owner. I do have a disabled badge and have the right to park in the disabled bays because of my dads disability, but on this occasion the badge had not been on display, it had fallen onto the floor when my dad got out of the car and I didnt realise that I could be in so much trouble by not having on my dashboard for the three or four mins I was in the shop. Could I write and say they have made a mistake and the badge was there? Thanking you all again.
eddie1234567
Ooops took it that your dads badge and your dad can't afford the fine therefore must be your dads car.

Still have a read of the BP thread and LegalPetes post about Private parking. It will give you the basis for your next actions.

Without contacting the company and without admitting you were the driver you could contact the store direct, pop into see the manager and explain what happened over the badge falling on the floor. Might do some good, might not.

Were there any signs saying that if you did not display a badge then you would get this invoice, as these would be the terms of any "supposed" contract. Have a look, it is important. Could you take a few pics and post here or write down word for word what is on the sign

Basically for any contract formed any amount charged for a breach of terms must not be more than reasonable i.e. did it really cost them £50.00 for you parking there for a few minutes without the badge. The bays may be put aside for disabled drivers and abuse of them is not to be condoned but at the end of the day they have no valid status other than respect from other drivers so any contract is still based on their "losses"
pollyarmo
Thanks again Eddie. I have never been to this particular retail park before and it is some way from my home so I dont think I could get photos ect. I am losing sleep over this tho and need to do something. If I ignore it and when they contact me I ask them to produce evidence that the badge wasnt in view would they be able to? Or should I write to them first and explain what happened enclosing a copy of the badge and entitlement document? Sorry to put you on the spot for a decision but it is making me miserable and I dont know what else to do.
DW190
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Wed, 21 Mar 2007 - 16:04) *
Thanks again Eddie. I have never been to this particular retail park before and it is some way from my home so I dont think I could get photos ect. I am losing sleep over this tho and need to do something. If I ignore it and when they contact me I ask them to produce evidence that the badge wasnt in view would they be able to? Or should I write to them first and explain what happened enclosing a copy of the badge and entitlement document? Sorry to put you on the spot for a decision but it is making me miserable and I dont know what else to do.


Rule 1 = Dont let this scum get to you.

Do nothing until correspondence is received by the owner. Owner then replies stating "Any contract could only be made with the driver. Please do not write to me again as I am only the registered keeper and not responsible".
pollyarmo
I have been back to look at the carpark notices where I got my ticket. There are NO notices at the entrance to the carpark, only a few in the actual the carpark bays and these are so high that I cant read them. I have taken photos and am sure thery have put them too high on purpose??? Any ideas? i have not replied to the ticket yet.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Sat, 24 Mar 2007 - 19:19) *
I have been back to look at the carpark notices where I got my ticket. There are NO notices at the entrance to the carpark, only a few in the actual the carpark bays and these are so high that I cant read them. I have taken photos and am sure thery have put them too high on purpose??? Any ideas? i have not replied to the ticket yet.



If you go to http://photobucket.com/ and put your pictures there, then post the links here
Morti
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Tue, 20 Mar 2007 - 18:51) *
Ooops took it that your dads badge and your dad can't afford the fine therefore must be your dads car.

Still have a read of the BP thread and LegalPetes post about Private parking. It will give you the basis for your next actions.

Without contacting the company and without admitting you were the driver you could contact the store direct, pop into see the manager and explain what happened over the badge falling on the floor. Might do some good, might not.

Were there any signs saying that if you did not display a badge then you would get this invoice, as these would be the terms of any "supposed" contract. Have a look, it is important. Could you take a few pics and post here or write down word for word what is on the sign

Basically for any contract formed any amount charged for a breach of terms must not be more than reasonable i.e. did it really cost them £50.00 for you parking there for a few minutes without the badge. The bays may be put aside for disabled drivers and abuse of them is not to be condoned but at the end of the day they have no valid status other than respect from other drivers so any contract is still based on their "losses"



Sorry .. But .. The Blue Pass belong to the person not the car! therefore can be used in more than one car as long as the person who it for is present!
eddie1234567
QUOTE (Morti @ Fri, 30 Mar 2007 - 00:51) *
Sorry .. But .. The Blue Pass belong to the person not the car! therefore can be used in more than one car as long as the person who it for is present!



Sorry Morti, I dont understand your post
pollyarmo
Uploaded my parking notice signs to photobucket. Please have a look and tell me what you all think. These sign are far too high, cant read them and there are no signs at the entrance to the carpark! More than 14 days have passed since I got this ticket...Im wainting for a letter...keep you posted.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Sat, 31 Mar 2007 - 13:03) *
Uploaded my parking notice signs to photobucket. Please have a look and tell me what you all think. These sign are far too high, cant read them and there are no signs at the entrance to the carpark! More than 14 days have passed since I got this ticket...Im wainting for a letter...keep you posted.



Have you got a link to the pics
pollyarmo
Slow Driver
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Sun, 18 Mar 2007 - 17:46) *
What can we do?


Write to them explain your actions and send a photocopy of the badge. Thats the simplest and most effective thing. You'll probably find they cancel the ticket.

If not follow the advice above.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (Slow Driver @ Mon, 2 Apr 2007 - 00:02) *
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Sun, 18 Mar 2007 - 17:46) *
What can we do?


Write to them explain your actions and send a photocopy of the badge. Thats the simplest and most effective thing. You'll probably find they cancel the ticket.

If not follow the advice above.


Unless you are going to pay it, I wouldn't write to them. They will take it as acceptance of contract and just chase you for it. They will in all likely hood just give it a cursory glance and reject it and try to hold you to a contract you have just intimated you entered into.

If you have read the BP thread and Legla Petes thread you will see that these are based on contract, the upshot is since it is based on contract they need to prove you entered into it and show that the charge is proportional to their losses.

Maybe Teufel or someone else can advise better on answering where you were the driver and the legibility of the signs.

If you havn't paid it yet then they will write to you as the registered keeper of the vehicle saying as the registered keeper you are the responsible when in fact it is the driver (in some cases this will be one in the same but they don't know that).

On other threads where the driver and the registered keeper may have been the same they have responded along the lines of

"as the registere keeper you are holding me liable to this charge, only the driver on the day can be held liable for entering into any contract"

To respond as the driver then the info on legalpetes thread and BP thread give an example of a letter along those lines about proportionality of the fee

And a quick quote from his thread

QUOTE
If you were the driver of the vehicle then that will move the goalposts a little. I would never advise anyone to lie in a document that could be used in any future proceedings. Thus I cannot advocate that any person write to the PPC and deny being the driver if this they actually were the driver. That said you are still under no obligation to incriminate yourself or to provide the PPC with any information whatsoever. The onus is on the claimant in a civil action to prove their case. As in criminal matters the defendant will retain their right not to incriminate themselves or provide evidence against themselves. I advise that if you were the driver that you ask the PPC to provide proof of who the driver was, being very careful at every stage in communication NOT to offer that you were. Should they be unable to prove who the driver was or unwilling then I would suggest that you write to them telling them never to contact you again.
pollyarmo
Its now over two months since I got this ticket. How long do they get before they should write to me? I keep thinking itll all go away. Hope so!
P.S. Ive not done anything about the ticket so I presume they will be contacting the dvla for ownership details??
Higs
QUOTE (pollyarmo @ Tue, 15 May 2007 - 10:43) *
Its now over two months since I got this ticket. How long do they get before they should write to me? I keep thinking itll all go away. Hope so!
P.S. Ive not done anything about the ticket so I presume they will be contacting the dvla for ownership details??
If you've not heard anything from them in 2 months I suspect it has 'gone away'.

If they do get back in touch with you, see above about it all being based on contract law - a contract that you don't feel you accepted and certainly doesn't leave you liable for £50 worth of damages.

I guess you'd have the choice then to either write back querying the status of the contract and the basis for £50 damages or to ignore them.
DIPPER
Similar thing happened to me. I sent them a picture of BOTH sides of the badge and told them it had fallen on the floor when I shut the door.
Heard no more....
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