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John472
I was recently caught on the M56 in Cheshire in a 40 MPH restriction. There was a sign saying there were average speed cameras in use but I did not see the usual specs cameras or any other 'popular'cameras in use.
There were no flashes so maybe it was one of these new digital ones, I don't know.

They say I was doing 48MPH. If I do the PACE statement as recommended, what is the most likely outcome?

Any information of suggestions would be appreciated.
Monster 900
Your best bet for good advice is to fill in the Nip Wizard and post the output back in this thread.
John472
QUOTE (Monster 900 @ Tue, 6 Mar 2007 - 18:42) *
Your best bet for good advice is to fill in the Nip Wizard and post the output back in this thread.


NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Cheshire Constabulary
Date of the offence: - February 2007
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M56 Westbound, Frodsham
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - 40Mph restrictions for roadworks. Caught by unseen camera (not Specs).
They claim I was doing 48Mph.


I would lile to know what are the most probable outcomes as I like a long way from Cheshire and may not want to get involved in a court heraing?
NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.1.0: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:47:44 +0000
chadders
Just to add this is definately a SPECS installation - has been for a long time, and they've recently played shuffle with the setup (which includes extending the length considerably and also a few extra sets to cover shorter distances).
chimy2006
Interestingly they have two cameras on the gantries covering three lanes and it looks as though they are the outside two lanes. They also have a camera on the off ramp eastbound junction 12. I was under the impression these cameras were only approved for single lane operation and if you changed lanes they were not enforceable. If this is the case and bearing in mind that there is only one camera on the offrramp would that not make the whole installation against ACPO. Would they have to supply camera evidence, do they take photos as such or is it just stored on a computer. i ask cause i use that stretch.
John472
QUOTE (chimy2006 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 11:51) *
Interestingly they have two cameras on the gantries covering three lanes and it looks as though they are the outside two lanes. They also have a camera on the off ramp eastbound junction 12. I was under the impression these cameras were only approved for single lane operation and if you changed lanes they were not enforceable. If this is the case and bearing in mind that there is only one camera on the offrramp would that not make the whole installation against ACPO. Would they have to supply camera evidence, do they take photos as such or is it just stored on a computer. i ask cause i use that stretch.


I did not see any cameras (which is way I did not watch my speed that well) normally the cameras are very conspicuous. I don't live anywhere near this area and have not been down that road for more that 10 years.

Is Cheshire more sneaky with hiding it's cameras than other counties?

What is Cheshire's reaction to the PACE letter?????
perrin
QUOTE (John472 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (chimy2006 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 11:51) *
Interestingly they have two cameras on the gantries covering three lanes and it looks as though they are the outside two lanes. They also have a camera on the off ramp eastbound junction 12. I was under the impression these cameras were only approved for single lane operation and if you changed lanes they were not enforceable. If this is the case and bearing in mind that there is only one camera on the offrramp would that not make the whole installation against ACPO. Would they have to supply camera evidence, do they take photos as such or is it just stored on a computer. i ask cause i use that stretch.


I did not see any cameras (which is way I did not watch my speed that well) normally the cameras are very conspicuous. I don't live anywhere near this area and have not been down that road for more that 10 years.

Is Cheshire more sneaky with hiding it's cameras than other counties?

What is Cheshire's reaction to the PACE letter?????



I drive this section of the M56 twice a day.

There are sixteen cameras there with both normal specs and others in between. Each camera has a sign on with
its number. TBH I don't know how you missed them. unsure.gif

I've been lucky so far...
chadders
You could ask for the photos to help you identify the driver. If they send two photos could see if you're in the same lane icon_idea.gif
John472
QUOTE (chadders @ Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 09:02) *
You could ask for the photos to help you identify the driver. If they send two photos could see if you're in the same lane icon_idea.gif


They do not send out the photo(s) unless you take it to court i.e. you get the summons. Because of the distance for me to get there, I do not partiularly want it to go that far.
John472
QUOTE (perrin @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 20:51) *
QUOTE (John472 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (chimy2006 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 11:51) *
Interestingly they have two cameras on the gantries covering three lanes and it looks as though they are the outside two lanes. They also have a camera on the off ramp eastbound junction 12. I was under the impression these cameras were only approved for single lane operation and if you changed lanes they were not enforceable. If this is the case and bearing in mind that there is only one camera on the offrramp would that not make the whole installation against ACPO. Would they have to supply camera evidence, do they take photos as such or is it just stored on a computer. i ask cause i use that stretch.


I did not see any cameras (which is way I did not watch my speed that well) normally the cameras are very conspicuous. I don't live anywhere near this area and have not been down that road for more that 10 years.

Is Cheshire more sneaky with hiding it's cameras than other counties?

What is Cheshire's reaction to the PACE letter?????



I drive this section of the M56 twice a day.

There are sixteen cameras there with both normal specs and others in between. Each camera has a sign on with
its number. TBH I don't know how you missed them. unsure.gif

I've been lucky so far...


I got to the M56 after driving 200 miles (the weather had been extremly wet) the light had started to go so it was not ideal camera spotting conditions for me.
John472
QUOTE (John472 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 07:53) *
for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.1.0: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:47:44 +0000


Has anyone here been caught in Cheshire and used the PACE statement in reponse tot the NIP?
If yes, can you say what their respose was to that please?
chipster
I was nabbed by Cheshire Constabulary back in January 2005 - SPECS cameras on the motorway through Thelwall (sp) Viaduct roadworks. 46mph on a quiet Sunday evening......

Not having the knowledge of this site at the time I stupidly bent over and took it. I then wrote to them months after the event questioning the legality of it all and they sent me the photos then! If they would do that after getting their money surely they'd send them out to a request before you coughed up?
chimy2006
yes we have used pace recently, the scammers are based in northwich and when we sent pace they wrote back saying "we have evidence you were the driver" and ignored the pace. they send documentation to the cps without the pace and without the back of the form requesting the info on which we wrote see attached statement.

btw they are doing us for the original offence and not providing information.

We have been through the Pre trial review where we pleaded not guilty on both counts with out attending and now have a Trial court date.

Because the cps have provided advance information for the court and they do not have all of the info from the scammers we expect the cps to drop the case or offer no evidence at court. we do not anticipate attending court but we live local so if we have to we will.

we are now in communication with the cps to get the case dropped.

They will send photos on request before you plead - they did for us - a lovely set of pictures
John472
QUOTE (John472 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 10:17) *
QUOTE (John472 @ Wed, 7 Mar 2007 - 07:53) *
for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.1.0: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:47:44 +0000




I sent off my PACE statement and immediately the scammers sent me back a conditional offer of points etc.
The claimed they now had evidence I was the driver.

These Cheshire scammers seem to be very 'on the ball'.
John472
Does anyone know of any case where someone who was caught speeding by specs cameras, won their case, after fighting the case in court?
John472
QUOTE (chimy2006 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2007 - 11:09) *
yes we have used pace recently, the scammers are based in northwich and when we sent pace they wrote back saying "we have evidence you were the driver" and ignored the pace. they send documentation to the cps without the pace and without the back of the form requesting the info on which we wrote see attached statement.

btw they are doing us for the original offence and not providing information.

We have been through the Pre trial review where we pleaded not guilty on both counts with out attending and now have a Trial court date.

Because the cps have provided advance information for the court and they do not have all of the info from the scammers we expect the cps to drop the case or offer no evidence at court. we do not anticipate attending court but we live local so if we have to we will.

we are now in communication with the cps to get the case dropped.

They will send photos on request before you plead - they did for us - a lovely set of pictures



Have you had any more success with your fight against the Cheshire scammers?

John 472
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