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M4rk
Hi,
On 22/02/07 I recieved a NIp in the post from the South Wales police informing me that my car was caught on Cwmdare Road Aberdare doing 38mph in a 30 limit.The alledged offence took place at 10:25 on 14/02/07. Enclosed with the nip is a form (Section 172) for me to fill in and send back informing them as to whom was driving (As yet not filled in or sent).
I was driving and I am annoyed as I saw the camera van and a glance to my speedo showed me to be doing just over the 30mph limit so I am supprised to get the nip but unsure as to how to proceed from here.

I have done the nip wizzard and the results are as follows,

Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? -
Yes

It recomends I send A PACE Letter.

I was wondering If anyone has ever had any successs with this letter in the South Wales area or If the ECHR or PACE letter is still valid ?.

The nip has a box in it and it says "You are required to provide the information on the attached form" - Is this a legal requirement or not ?


I have come to the following conclusions -

1 - Send the form in, grass myself up, and take the fine and points ( I have none to date).

2 - Send the form in, grass myself up then plead not guilty and fight it in court (Scary).

3 - Send in a PACE letter and see what happens next.

4 - Send in a ECHR letter and see what happens next.

Any help anyone can give me would be greatfully recieved, this is the first time I have found myself in this situation, but do enjoy a good fight when I know I am in the right.

Regards,

Mark.
crystal
Hi

Ther is not really an ECtHR letter I think you are mixing it up withthe PACE letter which is about asserting the right to silence with is what the ECtHR case is about (but more to it read the stickies)

I personally see no benift to completing their form to sending PACE, I would take the wizards advice

I would go with the wizard but use the time availble (respond using signed for next day on Day 26) to read up the options.

Regards
Crystal
M4rk
Hi,

Thanks for the advice, do I send the Pace letter to the Chief Constable of South Wales Police or the safety camera unit.

The safety camera unit has a po address in Cardiff and the South Wales police headquarters is in Bridgend.

Has anyone any experience of taking this approach with South Wales police ?.

Regards,

Mark.
The Rookie
Please complete the wizard again, this time on page 2 read the instructions and fill in the boxes BEFORE ticking the yes so we have all the details!

Simon
M4rk
Hi,

Hope this information helps,


NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - South Wales Police
Date of the offence: - February 2007
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Cwmdare Road Cwmdare Aberdare RCT
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I am the Registered Keeper
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I turned onto Cwmdare Road from Cemetery Road in Aberdare and proceeded to drive up the hill. I noticed the camera van to my right, took my foot off the throttle and checked my speed. I was doing just over 30 mph so thought i was ok. The camera van was parked facing up the hill on the down hill side and any video evidence woluld show me approaching the camera van. In twenty years of living in Cwmdare i have never seen a Camera van in this location before and my job takes me all over the valleys of South Wales so i know their usual places. They claim to have clocked me doing 38 mph on a 30 mph road.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

[i]Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.1.0: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:57:59

Regards,

Mark.
M4rk
QUOTE (M4rk @ Sat, 24 Feb 2007 - 17:07) *
Hi,

The nip has a box in it and it says "You are required to provide the information on the attached form" - Is this a legal requirement or not ?



Regards,

Mark.
The Rookie
Nope, the ruling in Jones V DPP is clear in that as long as the responce is in writing (not by phone) then as long as its signed (Francis V DPP) then you are totally 'legal'.

Simon
M4rk
Hi,

Thanks for the advise. I will send a pace letter to the chief contstable of South Wales police addressed to their headquarters in Bridgend by special delivery on the 26th day after the nip was dated (for delivery the following day) and see what happens next. (If this is not right could someone let me know asap - Thanks).

The more I think about this, the more I read up on the subject, the more It gets my back up. I'm comming round to the fight ahead and shall treat It as a learning process. After all with a clean licence and no previous convictions whats the worst they can do to me if it all goes t*ts up. With a bit of luck atleast I should be able to drag this out till we know the outcome of the EctHR rulling. (Any more news on this yet)

Anyone out there with any previous dealings of this situation with South Wales police then please get in touch and tell me your stories or send me a link to any previous / relevent posts. (Fore warned is fore armed as they say).

ALL ADVISE WELCOME.

Regards,

Mark.
M4rk
Hi,

To keep you up to date on my progress I sent a pace letter to the chief constable of South Wales police (Next day recorded delivery) on 12/03/07 and recieved the following letter from the camera partnership on 19/03/07

Dear Sir / Madam,

I acknowledge receipt of your recent communication and write to inform you that the contents of your letter are receiving attention.

A reply will be sent in due course.

Yours Faithfully,

#######

Operations Manager
M4rk
Hi,

Today (22/06/07) I received the following letter from the camera unit,

Dear Sir,

I refer to recent correspondence received regarding the offence subject to the above numbered notice of intended prosecution and write to inform you that the roll of the police in operating the speed camera is to record details of the vehicle and not the driver.

Having recorded the make, model, colour and registration number of the vehicle, a notice is served on the registered keeper / responsible person, whose responsibility it is to supply the name and address or the driver. Failure to supply this information renders him / her liable to prosecution.

Consequently, papers will be submitted to the crown prosecution service recommending prosecution for failure to supply this information and a summons will be issued in due course informing you of the time, date and venue of the hearing.

I trust that the information provided explains the position for you.

Yours Faithfully,

#######

Decision maker
On behalf of the central ticket office manager.



What should I do next ?.

Can they do me for failure to supply this information when it was supplied to the chief constable in a pace letter?.

Could I use this as a defence should it get to court ?.

Any advice is welcome.

Regards, - Mark.
Xicander
I went down the PACE route but made one simple error, sending my statement back too soon. Had I not done this I may not have recieved my summons within the 60 day cut off period.

Firstly check when your cut off period is, if you get a summons after this date you should be ok to challenge it (but get legal advice on this); if not get reading as you will either have to plead guilty or carry on the fight.

I am not that up on the technicalities of the court proceedings but someone else will probably help you with these.

Good luck!
mob
You have given them the information they have asked for. They are trying it on.

Read and digest this High Court ruling:

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?d...;method=boolean
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