Dear all - this site as been recommended by a friend - hope you can help


My girlfriend lives in a residents parking zone in Swindon, and as I am obvisouly a regular visitor I am always pretty diligent in displaying Visitors Permits for every minute that I'm parked outside her house.

To cut a very long story as short as I can, in December I recieved a PCN whilst a visitors permit was very clearly displayed in the windscreen. It turns out that Swindon Council have reviewed their residents parking scheme and as part of their changes have introduced a new style Visitors Permit. The old style permits (of which I was using) became obsolete at the end of November.

(it is worth noting that the new permits are not significantly different from the old permits, other than they have changed size and colour - anyone smell a money-making scam borne out of confusion?)


I have challenged this charge with Swindon Council who have so far been nothing other than abrubt, unhelpful, and entirely unsympathetic. They sent a letter to my girlfriend in July 2006 informing her of the changes. The letter stated that she could replace any full books of visitors permits free of charge with the new permits, so she did this back in the summer. Crucially she misunderstood a detail:

My girlfriend thought that any half-used books of permits she had until April 2007 to use (otherwise she would be losing permits that she had already paid for) - however, it turns out that this date was end of November 2006.


It was may argument that Swindon Council did not notify residents as efficiently as they should have done, and they certainly didn't notify me. I was therefore being charged due to their poor communication and the residents misunderstanding of this - i was an innocent third party.

The Council replied to my challenge stating that they could see no reason to cancel the charge, and that they sent my Girlfriend 'various' letters making her aware of the change. I replied and under the Freedom on Information act requested copies of ALL leters sent to residents regarding the changes to the residents parking scheme.

The council have now replied (outside of the 20 day FOI turnaround limit) with a copy of one single letter that was sent to residents in July 2006. One single letter to communicate to residents a major change in policy. One solituray letter is all it took Swindon Council to ensure that they had made every reasonable effort to inform everyone who is affected by their change in policy. I, being a non-resident, didn't recieve this letter.


So I have some legal questions:

• Is one letter reasonable? It is obvious that confusion will arise from such change in policy, so shouldnt they make more effort?
• Is it my girlfriend's (the resident) responsibility to accurately understand and pass on any changes in parking policy to me (the resident)? I argue that its not, and therefore the Council should have communicated directly with me - which they didnt.
• Finally - it's not my car that got the PCN, it's my Dad's who lives out of the country 6 months per year. When I recieve his Notice to Owner does he have to go down the formal appeal process or can I do it? I wouldnt really want to drag him in to it.

Oh, and one final question... - should I bother fighting this one or just pay up?



I appreciate any help I get on this. I thank you for taking the time to read my post, and I thank you even more for thinking about and worrying about a complete strangers parking problems.

A

Did the letter say the Nov 06 for expiry of half books (taking it that it did, but always best to confirm and not really sure how relevant) or is it printed on the book of tickets when they expire

Could you post a copy of the PCN after removing all personal details from it, from back then some councils (unless anyone else knows better) tickets may have been invalid due to not having 2 dates on them yet

Did it have a Date of Contravention as well as Date of Issue (ignore any dates on payment slip), post a copy anyway someonemight spot something else

Some councils havn't got their act together yet in relation to correct NTOs, and it would be your dads responsibility but you can fill it out and represent him (and post a cleaned copy here).

Another front is the Signs and Lines, could you post up photos of the bays and the signs.

Listening to strangers parking problems is what this forum is all about.
(I really need to get a life, but that's what summer is for)

i think a single letter is insufficnet notice

is there anything on the permits to indicate they may be withdrawn either
with or without notice - if not then that helps you

is there anything like an earlier leaflet explaining the system
whcih says this may occour - if there is and it doesnt then that helps you

have a look at this cade here - it seems to place a low burden on councils
for notification of a new scheme - though i think one can distinguish between
a change and a new scheme which is liekly ot have received wide
publicity and discussion beyond the legal reqs

patas owens v

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk...ts/Owens172.pdf

this case also looks at actual and implied assurance from council over permitsa
and might help you

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk...nts/beatt15.pdf


the fact that they have lied in their rejection of informal reps is outrageous

their rejection is thus illegal and a breach of your rights

wait for nto repeat with formal reps then go to patas if needed

howver further use of the old permists should cease !!

To eddie1234567:

The letter that was originally sent by the council to my girlfriend actually stated that the old permits would expire in September 2006. She has misunderstood this for April 2007 - - (im not quite sure why, but she has?) - - interestingly a worker at the Council told me that there was a lot of confusion so they extended the date until November 06. However, I have seen no communication from the council concerning the extension of this deadline, and the fact that they did extend it kind of means they acknowledge that there were problems, doesnt it?

Also the books of the old style permits have no expiry dates on them.

I think the PCN has both dates on, but im posting a scan in case there are any issues with it.

To Teufel:

Here is a copy of the permit I had on display. There is absolutely nothing on them stating that they may be withdrawn or replaced at any time:





I think my girlfriend has dug out some literature that the Council gave her when she moved into her house detailing residence parking and rules for visitors. I havnt seen it yet, but apparently there is nothin on stating that they may withdraw the permits at any time.


Thanks for you help

The wording of "You are required to pay" may make the ticket invalid.

Could you post the back of the ticket as well

I've updated the image on my server - so see my previous post which should now display both front and back.

Cheers

Here is some literature given to my GF by the council when she moved in, in October 2005. The leaflet is dated April 2003.

As you can see, no small print regarding the scheme being altered and visitors permits being withdrawn, with or without notice.

Teufel does this one fall into the "You are required to pay" issue or does the fact it just says that payment has to be made within x days, with no reference to who on the back cancel it out.

Also the front says pay before the end of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice and also by 28 days beginning with the date of this notice Within these 14 and 28 days

i think it is very misleading on owner liabilty

it says to the driver 'you are required to pay' which is not true as there is no requiemnt
for anyone to pay a pcn - this is not qualified or explained on the reverse

it does say if not paid an nto will be issued but this is only 'asking' for payment

i think this is very confusing and invalidates pcn

search here for the supporting law and cases