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eddie1234567
I think There was something posted about this a while ago and dmaned if I can find it.

first is the TSRG 2002 revocation and next quoted part is the 1994 revocation. I can't find anything about sign 1032 in either of these revocations but both go on about signs being valid if they were there immediatly before the legislation came into force

It does give maximums for the revocation of both versions, 2005 for 1984 version and 2015 for the 1994 version

Does this mean that if any sign is in use during these periods that they can remain in force until the full revocation, or if they are not mentioned does this mean they 12 weeks from date of force


QUOTE
Revocations2. The Traffic Signs Regulations 1994[<A name=n4><A href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm#note4">4] and the Traffic Signs (Amendment) Regulations 1995[<A href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm#note5">5] are hereby revoked.

Savings
3. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2), any traffic sign which immediately before the coming into force of these Regulations was placed on or near a road shall be treated as prescribed by these Regulations, notwithstanding any provisions of these Regulations to the contrary, provided that -
    (a) it is a sign prescribed, or to be treated as if prescribed, by the 1981 Regulations or by the 1994 Regulations; and

    (b) it continues to comply with those Regulations,
as if those Regulations had not been revoked.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall cease to have effect -
    (a) on 1st January 2005 in relation to the signs shown in each of the following diagrams -
      (i) in the Traffic Signs Regulations 1957[<A name=n6><A href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm#note6">6], diagrams 403 to 405, 412A to 418, 422 to 433, 435 to 459, 468 to 472, and 474 to 495;

      (ii) in the Traffic Signs Regulations 1964[<A href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm#note7">7], diagrams 742, 746, 837 and 838;

      (iii) in the 1981 Regulations, diagrams 626.1, 627, 628.1, 641, 642.1, 649.2, 653, 734.7, 739.3, 742.1, 742.2, 742.3, 742.4, 742.5, 742.6, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 752.1, 753, 753.1, 758, 759, 837.1, 838.1 and 905;

      (iv) in the 1994 Regulations, diagrams 618.1 (when varied to include the legend "buses and coaches"), 784, 818.1 (when varied to show a distance greater than 2 miles), 820 (when varied to include the legend "buses and coaches"), 954.1 and 1028.2 (when varied to "COACHES"); and

      (v) in the 1994 Regulations, diagrams 958, 959 and 960, in each case when varied to include the legend "& coaches";
    (b) on 1st January 2007 in relation to the signs shown in diagrams 622.1A (when varied to show "17T"), 626.2 (when displaying "17T" or "25T"), 1025 and 1025.2 in the 1994 Regulations;

    © on 1st January 2010 in relation to -
      (i) the signals prescribed by regulation 31(3) of the 1981 Regulations;

      (ii) the sign shown in diagram 661 in the 1994 Regulations; and

      (iii) the signs shown in diagrams 618.1, 618.2, 618.3, 618.3A and 620 in the 1994 Regulations when varied to include the orange badge symbol shown in diagram 661 in those Regulations;
    (d) on 1st January 2015 in relation to -
      (i) the signs shown in diagrams 728.1, 728.2, 729, 729.1, 729.2, 729.3, 730, 730.1, 732, 732.1, 732.2, 733, 733.1, 734.1, 734.2, 734.3, 734.4, 734.5, 734.6, 734.8, 734.9, 734.10, 736, 736.1, 737.1, 760 and 761 in the 1981 Regulations; and

      (ii) the signs shown in diagrams 2308, 2309, 2310, 2311, 2313, 2314, 2315, 2315.1 and 2919 of the 1994 Regulations.
(3) Subject to paragraph (4), portable light signals which do not comply with regulation 35 shall be treated as prescribed by these Regulations if and so long as -
    (a) those signals are of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation 32 of the 1994 Regulations; and

    (b) those signals and any apparatus (including the content of all instructions stored in, or executable by them) used in connection with them are the subject of an approval given and for the time being in force under direction 49 of the Traffic Signs General Directions 1994[8].
(4) Paragraph (3) shall cease to have effect on 1st January 2015.

(5) Notwithstanding regulation 2, the 1994 Regulations shall be treated, in relation to a paragraph (6) sign, as remaining in force during the extension period.

(6) In paragraph (5) -
    (a) "the extension period" means the period of 12 weeks beginning with the day on which these Regulations come into force; and

    (b) "a paragraph (6) sign" is a sign which is of the size, colour and type shown in diagram 547.5, 547.6, 626.2, 629, 639.1A, 642.2, 643, 644, 661, 661.2, 661.3, 780, 780.1, 780.2, 784, 785, 832.10, 864, 872, 2010, 2206, 2207, 2308, 2309, 2919, 2920, 3001, 3001.1, 4002, 7002, 7003, 7007 or 7010 of the 1994 Regulations
QUOTE
      Revocations
      2. The Instruments specified in Appendix 2 to this Instrument, so far as they consist of or comprise regulations, are hereby revoked except that for the purposes of the Traffic Signs (Welsh and English Language Provisions) Regulations 1985[3] the revocations of the Regulations marked with an asterisk in Appendix 2 shall have no effect.
      Savings
      3.��"(1) Subject to paragraph (2), any traffic sign which immediately before the coming into force of these Regulations is placed on or near any road shall be treated as prescribed by these Regulations, notwithstanding any provisions of these Regulations to the contrary, provided that
        (a) it is a sign prescribed, or to be treated as if prescribed, by the 1981 Regulations; and
        (b) it continues to comply with those Regulations,
      as if those Regulations had not been revoked.

      (2) Paragraph (1) shall cease to have effect
        (a) on 1st January 1996 in relation to any road markings shown in diagrams RM 2 to RM 29 in the Second Schedule to the Traffic Signs Regulations 1957[4], in relation to the sign shown in diagram 623 in Schedule 1 and any road markings shown in diagrams 1005 to 1008, 1013, 1015, 1016, 1027, 1028, 1030, 1031 and 1034 to 1039 in Schedule 2 to the Traffic Signs Regulations 1964<A href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19941519_en_2.htm#tfnf005">[5]; and
        (b) on 1st January 1999 in relation to any sign shown in any of the diagrams 508, 509, 537.1, 537.2, 537.3, 537.4, 542.1, 542.2, 554 (when varied to "Ice" or "Snowdrifts"), 556.3, 556.4, 577, 603, 605.1 and 622.1A (when varied to indicate a 16.5 tonne maximum gross weight prohibition) in Schedule 1 and diagrams 1016.1, 1018, 1020 and 1021 in Schedule 2 to the 1981 Regulations; and
        © on 1st January 2005 in relation to any sign shown in any of the diagrams 403 to 405, 412A to 418, 422 to 433, 435 to 459, 468 to 472, and 474 to 495 in the First Schedule to the Traffic Signs Regulations 1957, in diagrams 742, 746, 837, and 838 in Schedule 1 to the Traffic Signs Regulations 1964, and in diagrams 626.1, 627, 628.1, 641, 642.1, 653, 734.7, 739.3, 742.1, 742.2, 742.3, 742.4, 742.5, 742.6, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 752.1, 753, 753.1, 758, 759, 837.1, 838.1 and 905 in Schedule 1 to the 1981 Regulations; and
        (d) on 1st January 2015 in relation to any sign shown in diagrams 728.1, 728.2, 729, 729.1, 729.2, 729.3, 730, 730.1, 732, 732.1, 732.2, 733, 733.1, 734.1, 734.2, 734.3, 734.4, 734.5, 734.6, 734.8, 734.9, 734.10, 736, 736.1, 737.1, 760 and 761 in Schedule 1 to the 1981 Regulations.
      (3) A sign which is of the size, colour and type shown in diagram 701, 702, 702.1, 703, 703.1, 703.2, 703.3, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 710.1, 711.1, 712, 712.1, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 718.1, 718.2, 718.3, 719, 719.1, 719.2, 719.3A, 719.4, 720, 721.1, 722, 723, 724, 724.1, 724.2, 725, 726, 727, 727.2, 728, 728.1, 728.2, 728.3, 729, 729.1, 729.2, 729.3, 730, 730.1, 732, 732.1, 732.2, 732.4, 732.5, 733, 733.1, 734.1, 734.2, 734.3, 734.4, 734.5, 734.6, 734.7, 734.8, 734.9, 734.10, 735.1, 735.2, 736, 736.1, 737.1, 739, 739.1, 739.2, 739.3, 739.4, 739.5, 741, 741.1 or 905 in Schedule 1 to the 1981 Regulations may be erected on or near a road after the coming into force of these Regulations, notwithstanding that it is not of the size, colour and type shown in any diagram in these Regulations, provided that the design or manufacture of the sign had begun before the coming into force of these Regulations.
Box Clever
This page on the DfT website may be of some assistance:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_...n=10034&l=2
meadle
I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at here. 1032 is the bay marking.

It requires a sign to make it enforceable. The sign may have had a revocation.

However the 1032 is the first use of the marking. Otherwise it would be a 1032A or some other.

Therefore there would be no examples of revoking the marking.

The marking must be to the TSRGD to allow a restriction to be enforced with a sign. The marking essentially has no powers other than to give effect to the length that the sign enforces.

Is this what you were querying? That the sign can be incorrectly implemented?
eddie1234567
Trying to figure out what I am asking as well.

We have been quoted that the 1032 is valid as per the 1994 regs, now we are up to 2002. Either the lines are valid in the 1994 or not: If they are then they must have been updated to something in the 2002 version, but as above post if there is no 'a' there then it is the same???.

Trying to play devils advocate with it, trying to look from 'their' point of view as to why they would be valid.
Ziltro
I think 1032 was defined in the 1994 regs in the same way as it is in the 2002 regs.
Well that is what I am assuming.

The most important part, I think, of the TSRGD 2002's revokations is the bit where it implies that all signs which are correct to the 1994 regs at the time TSRGD 2002 came in to effect will be treated as being correct for as long as they remain correct.

So if they were not correct or at any point became incorrect then they can not put them back to the 1994 regs, they have to move on to the 2002 regs.

That's what it looks like it is saying anyway.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (Ziltro @ Tue, 16 Jan 2007 - 03:47) *
I think 1032 was defined in the 1994 regs in the same way as it is in the 2002 regs.
Well that is what I am assuming.

The most important part, I think, of the TSRGD 2002's revokations is the bit where it implies that all signs which are correct to the 1994 regs at the time TSRGD 2002 came in to effect will be treated as being correct for as long as they remain correct.

So if they were not correct or at any point became incorrect then they can not put them back to the 1994 regs, they have to move on to the 2002 regs.

That's what it looks like it is saying anyway.


Yep that sounds good.
meadle
Thats about it.

Other than to expand on if a sign or marking is not changed then it has no need to be revoked. It simply continues to be the same.

Simple as that really.
Ziltro
I don't know how far it goes though, I mean if someone were to paint over a TSRGD 1994 sign then would it require replacement with the TSRGD 2002 equivalent? ("Pay at meter/machine" for example)
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (Ziltro @ Tue, 16 Jan 2007 - 16:46) *
I mean if someone were to paint over a TSRGD 1994 sign then would it require replacement with the TSRGD 2002 equivalent? ("Pay at meter/machine" for example)

A newly installed sign is a newly installed sign, full stop, and must comply with the current regulations at the time of installation.
The 'saving' provisions only apply to signs that were correctly installed under any previous regulations, and remain compliant with them, and those signs have not been revoked (or amended in such a way that the unamended version cannot continue) in any of the intervening sets of regulations.
That is why the saving provision is worded the way that it is. If it merely referred to any previous regulations, there would be no way of revoking a sign, because once the current set of regulations was itself replaced, any signs which it revoked would spring back into life again, due to the general saving provisions in the new regulations.
eddie1234567
edit: Ooops wrong thread
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