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MCH
Hi, I don't know if anyone can help me out here... heres the story...

yesterday I recieved a letter from the DVLA basically saying that my licence was being revoked as the court had Informed them that I have recieved too many penalty points...
However I did NOT recieve any notification of the court case... therefore I did not attend (not my fault)
I rang the DVLA and enquired about this and they told me the following:

I had been convicted of the following offences and ordered to pay a £250 fine...

Failure to produce - I did produce and have the duplicate to prove this however I hadnt produced my counterpart (moved house and lost job so been busy with other things)

SP30 - Breaking the speed limit (different code on producer)

Faliure to drive in accordance with licence...

They told me that the Court had given me 5points and the code was SP30 however the code on the form (producer) is different so they have given me points regarding to the wrong code...

I also rang the court and have made an appointment to sign a "declaration" saying that I did not recieve any notification from the court/police and they asked to confirm my address and the address they had was wrong but I changed my address with the DVLA...

I have been told by someone who has had a similar thing happen (wrong offence code) and the court threw it out and they just got a slap on the wrist...

does any1 know anything about this sort of thing?
Thanks for any help in advance
nottoobad
I have recently been involved in a very similar case to yours so maybe I can help.

What you've got an appointment for is to do a "Statutory Declaration" that you didn't receive the NIP (n.b if you tell porkies it's perjury) which you have to "serve" on the Court that convicted you. You're supposed to do it within 21 days, so you'll have to state why you did'nt do this. Obviously, use Special Delivery to send it to the Court. It's then up to the convicting Court as to wether or not they accept your "Stat. Dec." If they do (mine did) you'll get another Summons for s.172 asking you if you're pleading "guilty" or "not guilty". Assuming you plead "not guilty", you'll get a letter from the Clerk to the Justices asking why you're "disputing" the case. You state the facts i.e that you moved house etc. this will go to the CPS who will decide wether to proceed or not (in my case they decided not to biggrin.gif ).

Hope this is of help.
MCH
right well what do I do because I was speeding but they used a different code on my producer to the one they gave me points for and I did produce and have the copy from the police station but I didnt provide my counterpart as I didnt know where it was... since then I lost my job and moved house so been really busy and forgot to take my counterpart in... cant remember if they said I had to or not though
also I think I should be able to defend myself as they have given me point without my knowlege by the looks of things
Peter_D
SP30 is exceeding the speed limit on a public road ( not a motorway)
What vehicle were you driving/riding and are you licenced to drive that vehicle. What was the original offence that attracted 5 points and how many other points do you have. Fill in and copy and paste the output to the thread. Regards Peter
andy_foster
MCH,

It is not entirely clear from your post(s) exactly what has happened (and obfuscation by those to eager to help to actually spend time reading the questions doesn't help) - so can you confirm whether the following is correct?

You were stopped at the time of an alleged speeding offence by the police.
You were either warned that you would be reported for consideration of prosecution, or given a Fixed Penalty Notice [if so, which]?
You were given a producer (HORT1) to produce your driving licence and counterpart at a police station.
You produced you photocard licence but were unable to produce your paper counterpart as you had lost/mislaid it.
[Did you explain this to the person you produced to? What was the outcome?]
You moved house
You notified the DVLA of your change of address wrt your Driving Licence (and V5C - vehicle registration if applicable)
The next you heard was this letter from the DVLA

What was the alleged speed/limit? 5 points and £250 suggests that it might have been to fast for an FPN.
Can you tell us anything about the alleged offence you were (presumably) stopped (and presumably reported/prosecuted/convicted) for?

N.B. The code on the producer (or on an FPN) may well be different to the DVLA's endorsement code for the offence.
For example, on the producer it might say XS30 - an abbreviation for excess speed in a 30mph limit. This isn't (necessarily) an error, and a producer is only a producer.
MCH
You were stopped at the time of an alleged speeding offence by the police. - correct

You were either warned that you would be reported for consideration of prosecution, or given a Fixed Penalty Notice [if so, which]? - I was given a green producer with an offence code nothing else.


You were given a producer (HORT1) to produce your driving licence and counterpart at a police station. - correct

You produced you photocard licence but were unable to produce your paper counterpart as you had lost/mislaid it.
[Did you explain this to the person you produced to? What was the outcome?] - correct but I do not recall if they said to bring it in when I found/replaced it

You moved house - Correct

You notified the DVLA of your change of address wrt your Driving Licence (and V5C - vehicle registration if applicable)
The next you heard was this letter from the DVLA - Correct

What was the alleged speed/limit? 5 points and £250 suggests that it might have been to fast for an FPN.
Can you tell us anything about the alleged offence you were (presumably) stopped (and presumably reported/prosecuted/convicted) for?

The dvla told me that I had recieved the fine and points for:
-Failure to produce
-Not driving in accordance with my licence
-breaking the speed limit (sp30)

I was travelling on a duel carriageway (70mph limit) but was not stopped untill after I had exited the duel carriageway.



n.b I was travelling in a PLG vehicle owned by myself and registered to myself
Peter_D
Sometimes it is like getting blood out of a stane.

What was the alleged speed/limit? 5 points and £250 suggests that it might have been to fast for an FPN.
Can you tell us anything about the alleged offence you were (presumably) stopped (and presumably reported/prosecuted/convicted) for?

The dvla told me that I had recieved the fine and points for:
-Failure to produce
-Not driving in accordance with my licence
-breaking the speed limit (sp30)

I was travelling on a duel carriageway (70mph limit) but was not stopped untill after I had exited the duel carriageway.


n.b I was travelling in a PLG vehicle owned by myself and registered to myself "

What SPEED are you accused of travelling at

What was the VEHICLE a car a van ( what weight ) a lorry ( what class ). Not driving in accordance with my licence.

How many points had you got before the new 5 points.


Regards Peter
MCH
I was driving a peugeot 306 diesel 3dr hatchback
was told I was doing 94 in a 70

I hold a full uk drivers licence and am insured on the car. it is taxed and mot'd
previously recieved 3points (not held my licence for 2yrs yet)
Peter_D
Well in that case it appears they may have given you 3 points for the speeding and 2 points for failing to produce. However it still does not explain the "Not driving in accordance with my licence" What groups are you qualified to drive as printed on your license and that UK test did you take to obtain it. Mind you it is only DVLA that said "Not driving in accordance with my licence"
So 3 +5 within two years and you are back to L Plates. Not nice. Regards Peter
MCH
the codes on the back of my licence are:
B (with symbol of a car)
B1 (with symbol of a van)
F K P

and seperately 122

so is there anyway I can prevent loosing my licence?
the code on the producer looks like XS50 but awful handwriting...

the dvla said the court had told them the "not driving in accordance with licence"

edit: my Practical Driving Test Pass Certificate says the following info

Category - B
Automatic - NO
Extended - NO

I also did Pass Plus if thats of any use..
L&Bsuck
QUOTE (MCH @ Sat, 13 Jan 2007 - 14:05) *
the codes on the back of my licence are:
B (with symbol of a car)
B1 (with symbol of a van)
F K P

and seperately 122

so is there anyway I can prevent loosing my licence?
the code on the producer looks like XS50 but awful handwriting...

the dvla said the court had told them the "not driving in accordance with licence"

edit: my Practical Driving Test Pass Certificate says the following info

Category - B
Automatic - NO
Extended - NO

I also did Pass Plus if thats of any use..


XS50 refers to speeding in a temporary spped limit zone( I think), was there roadworks or something?, SP30 - Exceeding speed limit on a public road.''either way both give points so I dont see how you can get the license back without retaking your test .
MCH
no there weren't roadworks... it was like 12.30-1.00 in the mornin on an emty duel carriageway.
andy_foster
Peter,

Just for a change, you appear to be talking bollox.

The Mags' guidelines for 91-100 in a 70 limit suggests 4-5 points which is what MCH got.
Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence is 3-6 points and endorsement code LC20.

If you fail to produce your licence (technically failing to produce the counterpart) you will be assumed not to have an appropriate licence (even though a quick DVLA check would confirm that he did).
Multiple related driving offences often receive the points for the what is deemed the most serious and fines for everything.

If you weren't warned that you would be reported, and weren't given an FPN, you can't be done for speeding - although it seems likely that the copper "remembers" giving you a verbal NIP even if it never happened.
The fixed penalty guidelines suggest that a fixed penalty should be given for speeds of up to 96 in a 70 limit. Whilst the copper is not obliged to give you a fixed penalty (instead of reporting you), it seems very strange that he didn't. [N.B. If the driver doesn't produce and surrender his licence at the side of the road, it's not an FPN as such, but a ticket that "entitles" the driver to a fixed penalty if he surrenders his licence at the nominated police station within a certain timeframe].
MCH
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 13 Jan 2007 - 14:27) *
Peter,

Just for a change, you appear to be talking bollox.

The Mags' guidelines for 91-100 in a 70 limit suggests 4-5 points which is what MCH got.
Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence is 3-6 points and endorsement code LC20.

If you fail to produce your licence (technically failing to produce the counterpart) you will be assumed not to have an appropriate licence (even though a quick DVLA check would confirm that he did).
Multiple related driving offences often receive the points for the what is deemed the most serious and fines for everything.

If you weren't warned that you would be reported, and weren't given an FPN, you can't be done for speeding - although it seems likely that the copper "remembers" giving you a verbal NIP even if it never happened.
The fixed penalty guidelines suggest that a fixed penalty should be given for speeds of up to 96 in a 70 limit. Whilst the copper is not obliged to give you a fixed penalty (instead of reporting you), it seems very strange that he didn't. [N.B. If the driver doesn't produce and surrender his licence at the side of the road, it's not an FPN as such, but a ticket that "entitles" the driver to a fixed penalty if he surrenders his licence at the nominated police station within a certain timeframe].


sorry but i'm not as smart as you guys what does that mean in simple terms (sorry)
Peter_D
Thanks Andy it did not click that it was the 94 thant triggered the 4-5 pints and the fact that not producing the counterpart created the 'Not driving in accordance with my licence' it has been hard getting the facts out of the OP but it's clear now. Regards Peter
MCH
so is there anyway of keeping my licence?
Peter_D
Have you applied for a retest yet. Regards Peter
MCH
no I have not had my licence revoked yet... I contacted the DVLA and the court regarding not being notified of the court case/date and I have to go and sign a "statutory declaration" to say I did not recieve the court summons... as I didnt
crystal
Hi,

the best thing to do now is after you have made your declaraytion to the court you will then be issued with a summons, which you can post on here to see exactly whatthey are chaging you with on what grounds, Without that it could all be a bit vague.

Regards
Crystal
Rallyman72
MCH it is not clear from what you have posted, and everyone has made assumptions about it - when did you pass your driving test? Is it less than 2 years ago?
Peter_D
OP stated 'not held my licence for 2yrs yet' Regards Peter
Rallyman72
QUOTE (Peter_D @ Sun, 14 Jan 2007 - 16:55) *
OP stated 'not held my licence for 2yrs yet' Regards Peter
OK - missed it icon_redface.gif
The Rookie
Which means he will have to resit his test if found guilty of any offence, but could certainly do without some of the other offences on his record!

Simon
Peter_D
As Andy pointed out 94 in a 70 is 5 points anyway so the OP can sign what ever he wants he is highly likely to still get 5 points so the licence has gone. Sorry but true. Regards Peter
MCH
the previous points were put on but the vehicle details for them were wrong can I get them removed or is it too late? as I paid the fine & everything for those 3...
The Rookie
No, you needed to appeal within 21 days, and if you accepted the FPN you have even less chance. Your best bet is to get the current overturned, and then 'manage' when you loose your licence having already sorted your retest (including theory and hazard as I understand it) for as soon as possible after, oh and buy a slower car to drive for the 2 years after that!

Simon
MCH
Went today and to my suprise I didnt actually sign anything... huh.gif
I was given a copy of the original summons and sure enough it was addressed to my old house...
I was asked whether I pleeded guilty to the following offences:

Speeding In a 70 zone - guilty

Driving otherwise in accordance with licence - not guilty

Faliure to produce - Guilty but with details (did produce just didn't have my counterpart)

they have removed the 5 points and £250 fine and given me a date for "retrial" or something.
I have to attend a Review on the 22nd Of Feb (I will of held my licence for 2yrs on the 25th) the legal advisor looked at my licence and requested it be put for review on the 22nd and they accepted..

I will add more details tomorrow.
But in the Police officers statment he claims he stopped a Peugeot 309 but I was driving a 306 which is a hatchback rather than a saloon...
audiquattro
Hmmmmm part 2 of driving license......so that means the photo card bit isn't valid on its own, just shows me which part is valid and its the paper bit unsure.gif unsure.gif
Peter_D
The points are dated on the day of the offence not the court hearing/trial so if they hand you points back at the retrial your licence will be revoked. Regards Peter
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