Well thought I would put a new thread on about this to make it easier to find and also as it doesn't really have anything to do with my appeal.

Well seems the SE are as arrogant as the councils on this, here is Tavish Scotts reply, talk about Teflon coated, slopeing shoulders

From this post here

Tavish Scott MSP
Minister for Transport
Scottish Executive
Development Department
Victoria Quay

Dear Tavish

Parking Control

I have recently been contacted with regard to the recent case of the successful appeal against a parking fine. There are further claims of many discrepancies between legislation and its enforcement across Scotland. I would be obliged if you could investigate into the matters raised and detail what action is being taken with regard to any discrepancies found.

Firstly, in light of this court ruling that parking tickets must be repaid, what will happen about those incidents where Sheriff Officer action has been taken against someone, now the ticket is illegal, surely this is also illegal debt recovery.

Secondly, there is concern that notices to Owner and Notices of Rejection are also incorrectly issued (not just for car parks). The point was made that although 28 days are allowed from the date of service, much of this time is lost in delivery. Thirdly, with regard to the same matter, Councils often issue Charge Certificates before the end of 28 days from date of issue or date of service. This can lead to confusion amongst those who are considering their options, whilst also under the erroneously premature threat of Sheriff Officer action. In Scotland there is no apparent method to halt Sheriff Officer action, once undertaken, other than pay the officers, plus their charges on top of the debt, and claim this money back via the small claims court.

Fourthly, it is claimed that parking tickets in Scotland were invalid according to the 1991 Road Traffic Act, due to insufficient information being supplied on the ticket. An English court ruled that tickets must supply a date of contravention and a date of issue, and although changes are currently being made, the issue of previous actions remains.

Fifthly, with councils able to start Sheriff Officer action themselves, there is no re-course for drivers to the courts to challenge and change inappropriate action by the councils. To quote the legislation "parking authority may recover the increased charge as if the charge certificate were an extract registered decree arbitral bearing a warrant for execution issued by the sheriff court in sheriffdom in Scotland". Any question of invalidity about tickets is dealt with by the local council, and not an independent, impartial court. As such (as previously stated above) there is no recourse, but to pay, plus the sheriff officer fees and try and re-claim later. If it is felt that any of the parties from the council to SPAS are not correct the only available remedy in law is to request a Judicial review, which can cost up to £10 000.

Thank you for your attention. I look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely

Brian Adam MSP
Aberdeen North
Dear Brian

Thank you for your letter of 30th November 2006 about the operation of decriminalised parking enforcement.

The Scottish Executive notes that decriminalised parking enforcement has been operating for several years and in our view is the framework in place for determining disputs is appropriate and lawful.
Ultimately, however, it would be a matter for the courts to determine whether the implementation of decriminalised parking enforcement was legal.

The issue of the penalty charge notice and the wording thereon, together with any debt recovery action, is a matter for the local authority to operate within the applicable legislation. Neither the Scottish Ministers nor the Scottish executive can intervene in what is a legal dispute between the Council and memebes of the public who have received penalty hage notices for parking offences.

I hope this is of assistance.


My initial, response to the MSP, Mr Brian Adam, who first asked questions about off street parking

Dear Mr Adam, thank you for your reply from Tavish Scott.

I note he says they cannot intervene in a dispute about a parking charge between council and driver.

Me thinks someone is trying to squirm out of it, because they did intervene between the motorist and council by changing the law to allow for tickets in car parks.

They are happy to let the councils to take money from motorist and do debt recover, but won't step in to help motorists being persecuted by councils illegal actions.

It's the same arrogant them and us, we are right you are wrong, that we are getting from the councils.

Things might be lawful but that is why we have come to government, because councils are not operating within the legislation.

Also for him to have the brass kneck to say it is nothing to do with him since all councils turn around when questioned about this and say that the Scottish Exec has not told them to do it differently, so which is it Mr Scott, either you do intervene and discuss and co-ordinate with the councils on a regular basis about this or you are impartial and don't do any of the above.

Glad he thinks we have £10k to fight a £60 ticket and councils can do what they want without recourse to the courts ie sherrif officer action

You will have to excuse this badly written e-mail, this is my knee jerk reacction to this, but gets my feelings in. I must thank you for taking an interest in this and helping even though you do not represent me, although some of People you do represent will have received tickets and ultimatly will benefit from our campaign

(ps it gets worse for councils: The adjudicator has just said that because we have restrictions in place during hour s X and Y then time of contravention is also needed to show the ticket was issued during applicable hours and not afterwards. Looks like we will have to start a mass class action restitution against councils, it will cost them millions to show the People have had enough)