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dodger886
I know there is something about 14 days to send you the NiP.

My car is a contract hire vehicle. Would the NiP have first gone to the car supplier (eg Ford, Honda etc) and then to our company or has it come to the company immediately. In which case, does that give me some scope in arguing a time out?

Can you assist?
andy_foster
Subject to certain exceptions, they have 14 days to serve a NIP on the Registered Keeper (as shown on the V5C).
Generally for lease/hire arrangements, the supplier (or even their supplier) will be the RK.

The next "time-out" is 6 months to apply for a summons - so subject to that, there's no time limit (or legal requirement) for subsequent NIPs.

Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard, and then post the Wizard's output back here to enable us to help you.
dodger886
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Met Police
Date of the offence: - December 2006
Date of the NIP: - 30 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 31 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Brixton Road nth of Hillyard St S/B SW9
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company car driver (vehicle on contract hire)
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Question.
Points. How long must I count them for. Are they ignored after 3 years and cleaned from licence after 4 years.

My question is about the time line. See above for dates etc. Would the fact that I received the notice (or my company has an given it to me) 30 days after the alledged offence help me? Hope you can help.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Do nothing!
    The police are not requesting the information from you, they are requesting it from the person the NIP is addressed to. Wait until you receive a NIP addressed to you personally, then come back here.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.0.2: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:10:16 +0000
andy_foster
No.
You'd need to run it again, copy the results (when it tells you to) and paste them into a post in this thread.
dodger886
Thanks for your help. See above. I have done it!
dodger886
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Met Police
Date of the offence: - December 2006
Date of the NIP: - 30 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 31 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Brixton Road nth of Hillyard St S/B SW9
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company car driver (vehicle on contract hire)
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Question.
Points. How long must I count them for. Are they ignored after 3 years and cleaned from licence after 4 years.

My question is about the time line. See above for dates etc. Would the fact that I received the notice (or my company has an given it to me) 30 days after the alledged offence help me? Hope you can help.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Do nothing!
    The police are not requesting the information from you, they are requesting it from the person the NIP is addressed to. Wait until you receive a NIP addressed to you personally, then come back here.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.0.2: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:10:16 +0000

This post has been edited by dodger886: Yesterday, 19:12
firefly
Just to clarify, have your company handed you the notice - even though it's got the company's name on it?
dodger886
Yes they have. I am a director of the company! So it just came to me in my tray! Me being the driver of the vehicle. I have not sent it back yet confessing to be the driver. Only got it Friday 5th. Dates all received as above.

There is an inaccuracy with the company name, it's a small typo. Not sure if this helps me?!

Cheers.
Captain A
The addressee only must reply, ie the Company.
dodger886
But effectively I am the company! There is no one above me to do it!
Chas820
Wait intil day 26 than post the nip back to them with your personal details on it.when the nip arrives with your name on it you have another 28 days to return it.If you ask for photo`s to help identify the driver this may add a few more days on you will then be over half way to a time out
dodger886
Can i wait until day 26 to ask for the photos then send on the NiP after i get the photos? Or must I return the NiP within that time?

Am i right in thinking then that the fact they took 30 days to send the compnay the NiP negates any chance of arguing the 14 day rule because it is not my own personal vehicle?

Cheers
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Sun, 7 Jan 2007 - 15:53) *
Am i right in thinking then that the fact they took 30 days to send the compnay the NiP negates any chance of arguing the 14 day rule because it is not my own personal vehicle?

That's gibberish confused2.gif confused2.gif , but in any case, the RK (as per the DVLA records) must receive their NIP within the 14 days, company or not.
However, in your case, the leasing co. will be the RK.
All of which you have already been told.
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 17:25) *
Subject to certain exceptions, they have 14 days to serve a NIP on the Registered Keeper (as shown on the V5C).
Generally for lease/hire arrangements, the supplier (or even their supplier) will be the RK.
andy_foster
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Sun, 7 Jan 2007 - 15:53) *
Can i wait until day 26 to ask for the photos then send on the NiP after i get the photos? Or must I return the NiP within that time?


You are legally required to provide the driver's details within the 28 days. Most forces allow you extra time if they receive meaningful communications (e.g. asking for photos), but they don't have to.

QUOTE
Am i right in thinking then that the fact they took 30 days to send the compnay the NiP negates any chance of arguing the 14 day rule because it is not my own personal vehicle?


Which part of this post don't you understand?

N.B. The Met so far have an excellent track record regarding PACE/self-incrimination (but not so good regarding Brazilian electricians). [So far we are only aware of one summons after sending a PACE Witness Statement to the Met]
Is there anyone else in the company that you could delegate the task of responding to NIP/s.172s to? It is unlikely to become an issue, but it's probably better that they don't have any of their s.172 forms signed by you admitting that you were the driver.
dodger886
Yes I can ask someone else to complete it. I'll post it off on day 26 and take it from there.

Sorry for the confusion over the 14 days etc. You have clarifed that in my case the RK would probably have received the NiP within 14 days. I guess there is little I can do to find this out for certain. Are you aware of this information ever being disclosed if I chose to call the contract hire company?

Thanks.
andy_foster
If you are effectively the company, it should be quite simple to tell whether or not you (the company) is the RK.
Do you hold the V5C (log book in old money)?

If you don't hold the V5C, you aren't the RK.
alphanov
I was in exactly the same situation and politely wrote to the scamera operators about the 14 day timeout... it took them 6 weeks to reply that it had been correctly served to the RK. My "offence" timed out yesterday and I have a CoFP with about 14 days to run before I ignore it! biggrin.gif
dodger886
Thanks for your responses guys.

Am checking out who has the log book and will advise. I am hoping it's the company. If not it's the contract hire compnay and I'm not off the hook!
7159keith
Br careful, just going through the same thing. It may not even be the contract hire company who is the RK, they may lease it. My company hire my car from another company who lease it from HSBC (the RK). Thankfully I have been able to get a copy of the original NIP.

Good Luck
dodger886
Just checked at the office. We do not have the log book. It remains with the contract hire company. Ironically the 3 year contract ended today and the car has just gone back to ****.

So what to do next?

Should I persue the contract hire company and ask them when they got the NiP? Are they likely to tell me?
Ask my PA to send back the NiP with my details on it on day 26?
Write before that asking for photographs (this is a fleet car after all, it could have been someone else!) which may give me more time?

Just thinking of how to lengthen the process to see if i can get past 6 months!

Cheers for the help!
andy_foster
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2007 - 14:47) *
Should I persue the contract hire company and ask them when they got the NiP? Are they likely to tell me?


You're the customer...

QUOTE
Ask my PA to send back the NiP with my details on it on day 26?
Write before that asking for photographs (this is a fleet car after all, it could have been someone else!) which may give me more time?
Just thinking of how to lengthen the process to see if i can get past 6 months!


IMHO, trying to engineer a time-out from virtually a standing start is a bit of a tall order. There's also a (very remote) chance of (the company) being done for failing to name the driver within the 28 days if you stall.
dodger886
Yep guess so.

Thought I'd try and capitlaise on the 30 day delay before gettign the NiP to me but 4 more months after that is a long time to keep it hanging on!
andy_foster
BTW, definitely get your PA to send it back as late as possible - you're "entitled" to that time, but a "straight time-out" seems so remote as to render the (albeit small) risk from extending the 28 days pointless.
dodger886
Yep thanks.

If I ask for photos would that give me more time or does that depend on the force?
dodger886
Finally got in touch with the contract hire company. They received the NiP on day 8 and replied (giving the company details) on day 14 so it looks like I'm stuffed on that one.
Any more advice apart from fill it in and take it on the chin?! Now at day 11 since receiving the NiP.
bassanclan
If the NIP is addressed to the company then it is the responsibility of the company secretary to supply the information, not the director of the company.
Many NIPs point this out somewhere.
dodger886
Yes thanks for that. Intend to ask co. secretary to complete it!
Seems like I'm doomed though.
Noting the comments earlier anyone think it is worth writing (in ignorance) claiming that it wasn't received in 14 days by the company and I believe it to be invalid (although i do realise the advice on who is the RK etc)?
dodger886
Just for the record.
Contacted the contract hire company, They told me the dates they got the NiP (within the 14) but do not keep copies of it since 'they get too many!'
dodger886
Latest info.

Still not got my own personal NiP yet!
The Rookie
When you have it complete the NIP wizard, although it will probably suggest using the PACE ws.

Simon
dodger886
Just to update all, I have still heard nothing from them about this.
Am i out of the woods now?
[/quote]
patdavies
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2007 - 19:57) *
But effectively I am the company! There is no one above me to do it!



No you are not.

You state that you are a director of the company. the responsibility for responding on behalf of the company rests with the registered Company Secretary.

Have the Co. Sec. complete the S.172 request naming you and return it around day 26/27 of the allowed period. The scammers will then send you a NIP of your very own and another 28 days to complete the S.172 request
dodger886
QUOTE (patdavies @ Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 15:32) *
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2007 - 19:57) *
But effectively I am the company! There is no one above me to do it!



No you are not.

You state that you are a director of the company. the responsibility for responding on behalf of the company rests with the registered Company Secretary.

Have the Co. Sec. complete the S.172 request naming you and return it around day 26/27 of the allowed period. The scammers will then send you a NIP of your very own and another 28 days to complete the S.172 request


Not sure what has happened. I had thought nothing else of it to be quite honest until I heard something which i haven't. I will enquire with the CS. However, it is well past 6 months now. Should they not have served anything by now? I certainly have nothing addressed to me.
davepoth
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 16:31) *
QUOTE (patdavies @ Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 15:32) *
QUOTE (dodger886 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2007 - 19:57) *
But effectively I am the company! There is no one above me to do it!



No you are not.

You state that you are a director of the company. the responsibility for responding on behalf of the company rests with the registered Company Secretary.

Have the Co. Sec. complete the S.172 request naming you and return it around day 26/27 of the allowed period. The scammers will then send you a NIP of your very own and another 28 days to complete the S.172 request


Not sure what has happened. I had thought nothing else of it to be quite honest until I heard something which i haven't. I will enquire with the CS. However, it is well past 6 months now. Should they not have served anything by now? I certainly have nothing addressed to me.


If your company did fill in the NIP correctly, naming you as the driver, then you are correct in that they are now out of time to issue a NIP to you. Congratulations. biggrin.gif
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