Hi all,

In November I was snapped by a Gatso on the M8/M9 Interchange going into Edinburgh (I live in Oban). Was clocked doing 68mph in the section where traffic is slowed to 50mph. Received my first NIP a week later. Returned it unsigned with the forum letter saying, "as I am not the only one who is authorised to use my vehicle, etc,etc, could you send me photos & calibration certificate etc.

They did, with another NIP which I returned unsigned with another forum letter, the one about, "as this matter is currently before the ECHR, could it be left in obeyance until judgement is made etc,etc. They replied saying no, its business as usual you've got fulfil the Sec 172 requirement and a third NIP was issued. I sent in the ECHR forum letter about, my right to silence and not incriminating myself, etc,etc. They replied by saying the ECHR had ruled in 2001 that completing the Sec 172 requirement DID not breach or infringe my right to silence and self incrimination! Did'nt believe that for a second because my understanding is that, that very thing is before the ECHR now awaiting ruling??!

I sent in the forum letter about, okay it was me but I provide this information on the understanding that you won't use it against me. I received a conditional offer of £60 and three points which I must answer by 13th Jan 07.

Thing is, in all my correspondence with L&B, I've sent post recorded delivery and have receipts - they have NEVER sent any of thier stuff recorded or registered to me, just normal mail. The conditional offer I got on the 15th December - could I just ignore it and say I never received it, Christmas post and all that? Or does anyone think they will summons me?

Any pointers would be appreciated because it gauls me that camera partnerships work like the Police's/Governments cash machine and I don't want to be the first to be done by L&B Police.

Regards, Glenn.

I am in the same boat as you mate, what cant speak cant lie so who can ever prove we recieved there "nice wee offers"?

ps: I am ignorning it as you state we take the time to send letters to them special & recorded yet they save save save by just using normal mail service, yet if it does get lost they want US to carry the blame, chancers of the highest quality if you ask me.

Glenn,
It would have helped if you read the stuff on here before posting them trash....

The abeyance letter is for a trial after recieving a summons

The S172 is held not to breach our rights, otherwise there would be nothing to appeal to Europe.....Doh

PACE is for England and Wales and not Scotland......double Doh

Try reading the cunningly hidden READ ME FIRST sticky at the top of this forum and following the advice....

Simon

Glenn,

Can you click on point 5 of my signature please.

By-the-way, I used to live not too far from you.

Strewth!
1) How can yoiu ignore it and say that you never received it, youn are then not ignoring it.
2) Why on earth would you want to do that in any case, what would it achieve?
3) In any case, no. Telling lies is a bad idea ™.


Precisely.

Hi Glenn,

i am in a similar position, unsigned NIPs and they have just sent a fixed point conditional offer. My 28 day period elapses on the 15th Jan and i intend to ignore their offer.

I intend to fight this all the way and Ill be interested to hear how you get on.

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post - Simon, I'm not a fool, I did read every single post and piece of advice and sent in the correct letters (which only apply to Scotland) in response to L&Bs letters to me.

I am going to ignore anything further from L&B and see what happens! I'll keep like minded and interested parties informed of what occurs,


Many thanks, Glenn.

Glenn - clarify then, the abeyance letter is only relevant after recieving a summons, so you have already been summonsed to you pleading diet? What letter did you send saying OK its me but you can't use it, sounds very like the PACE ws, accuracy is everything, it sounds like these are what you sent, if thats not the case, then be more precise.

Simon

Point 5 of my signature?

As you've done a fair bit of (unnecessary) corresponding with the scammers, I'd be inclined to keep my head below the parapet and see what happens.

Simon,

After receiving my first NIP on 8th November I returned it unsigned with an accompanying letter from the site explaining that I was aware that I had aduty to take reasonable steps to provide the information required in the notice. And that I was not the only authorised driver of my vehicle so therefore would you please supply any fotos/video and a copy of the calibration certificate etc. I ended that letter by requesting that as there are a number of cases going through the ECHR relating to the validity of Sec 172 Notices, I ask that the above matter be held in abeyance until the conclusion of those cases.

On 18th November I received second NIP with a letter from L&B Police enclosing fotos and a calibration certificate and a seperate letter saying that until the ECHR make a ruling, they must continue "business as usual". I sent them the forum letter, "I have been informed that case law of the ECHR indicates that the fundamental and enduring principle of a persons right to silence and avoidance of self-incriminination is applicable to Sec 172 of the RTA 1988 - I would like to exercise my fundamental right to remain silent and draw your attention to Appendix I of this letter, which contains the case law upon which my defence will rely".

Third NIP received 30th November with a letter saying "The ECHR found in 2001 that Sec 172 requirement DID NOT infringe on your human rights". I returned NIP unsigned (as before) with a short letter saying that I did not believe their assertion about "an ECHR ruling being made in 2001" was correct. I also enclosed a witness statement on a seperate paper confirming the details on the NIP(s) but, "As this statement is provided under threat of criminal penalty and as I have not received a formal caution, I wish this statement and the information in it to be submitted on the express understanding that it shall not be used or disclosed in any proceedings of whatever nature against me or be given in evidence to a court in a prosecution".

Now I've had (15th Dec) a conditional offer of 3 points and 60 quid - which is up on 15th Jan 07. I've done nothing else, no acknoledgement nowt. So, guys, what have I done thats so wrong/incorrect/arse about face?

Your advice is welcome, wanted and greatly appreciated,

Regards, Glenn.

PS. Everything I've done and sent is expressly from the Scotland only point of view.

I'd do precisely nothing. Wait and see what happens.

Thanks Firefly - just hope I don't get sommonsed! I will keep everyone advised here on the forum as to what happens. Again, my thanks everyone who commented, we really do have to stick together with this.

Regards, Glenn.

Thanks Firefly - just hope I don't get sommonsed! I will keep everyone advised here on the forum as to what happens. Again, my thanks everyone who commented, we really do have to stick together with this.

Regards, Glenn.

Thanks Firefly - just hope I don't get sommonsed! I will keep everyone advised here on the forum as to what happens. Again, my thanks everyone who commented, we really do have to stick together with this.

Regards, Glenn.