Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Another foreign license question ;-)
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Tempest
Hi folks,

Good to see that a site like this exists, although I never believed I would need it ;-)

Hoping to get some advice, as after having read through the forum here, none of the foreign-license cases seemed to quite fit my scenario.

I am Dutch, have a German EU-model driving license, and have been a resident of the UK since 1992.

I am a director of a small 2-man company and got caught recently for speeding in our company van. I was on my own, and was allegedly doing 60 mph through roadworks on the M2 where there was a limit of 50 mph.

Details from the NIP wizard:

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Kent Police
Date of the offence: - December 2006
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M2 near VICARAGE LANE OVERBRIDGE, OSPRINGE
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company vehicle, director of company
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Most likely got caught by a police van with a speed camera inside facing towards me; van located on a fly-over on the M2 where there were roadworks; van parked above opposite motorway lanes, but probably with camera facing towards my direction; didn't see flash

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Do nothing!
    The police are not requesting the information from you, they are requesting it from the person the NIP is addressed to. Wait until you receive a NIP addressed to you personally, then come back here.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.0.2: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:13:24 +0000

The NIP is addressed to my fellow director at the company's address. The registered keeper of the van according to the V5 is the company.

My colleague is not quite sure how to fill in the NIP, if that's advisable at all ;-)

My concern is what will happen to my German EU-license. Having read up on the Direct-Gov site, do I correctly interpret the following statement

"you can drive in Great Britain (GB) on your full, valid driving licence from an EC/EEA country, until you are 70, or for three years after becoming a resident, whichever is the longer period "

as meaning that I cannot be prosecuted for not having converted my German EU-license into a UK one, as I am 37 now, and I have been resident since 1992?

If so, what are our best options? We are willing to pay (if it's inevitable), but were wondering how to go about doing this, as I believe the fixed penalty would not apply?

If I have to go to court, will the case be recorded in some criminal record file on me? If so, how can I avoid that from happening, since speeding is hardly a capital offence? Any ideas on how high the penalty at court would be, if it comes to that?

What's the situation with this "ghost license" held by DVLA? I take it that even though points are recorded on such a ghost license, they will expire after 3 years, just like with a full UK license? Will this affect the insurance premium held on my own private vehicles?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Tempest
kingjohn
To the best of my knowledge, you can drive on an EU license indefinately. We're all part of the united states of Europe now, you see.
As far as the NIP goes, if you want to fight it then there are avenues to take, and searching the forum should provide you with ideas. The person sent the NIP should send it back naming you, then you are in a position to fight/accept it.
If you plead guilty and ask that you be dealt with in the same way as a British license holder then you should only get the £60 fine.
As to your insurance, it all depends on what your broker/underwriter says. There may be no reason why they would care - as you won't have points on your license.
Tempest
Thanks for the reply so far.

Few questions again, after having read lots more here on the forum and elswehere on the Net.

QUOTE (kingjohn @ Thu, 14 Dec 2006 - 13:38) *
The person sent the NIP should send it back naming you, then you are in a position to fight/accept it.


Is there anything else my company can do to protect me, so to speak, or is iot best for my fellow-director to fill in the NIP truthfully and return it? I will then, no doubt get my own NiP shortly afterwards, I presume.

QUOTE (kingjohn @ Thu, 14 Dec 2006 - 13:38) *
If you plead guilty and ask that you be dealt with in the same way as a British license holder then you should only get the £60 fine.


Interesting! How does that work?
Do I not have to turn up in court to then cough up a higher fee once they realise that I have a German license? I'm trying to avoid having to go to court, as I assume it'll be in the area where the speeding camera caught me rather than at a court near where I live (almost other part of the country).

QUOTE (kingjohn @ Thu, 14 Dec 2006 - 13:38) *
As to your insurance, it all depends on what your broker/underwriter says. There may be no reason why they would care - as you won't have points on your license.


That probably then also means that insurance companies are not allowed to interrogate the so-called shadow-license that the DVLA hold on me?

I have been reading up on Pace. The NiP wizzard also recommends to send a Pace once I have received my own NiP. I understand it that it doesn't matter what type of camera I was caught with in order to try the Pace route? The camera must have caught me from the front, so chances are high, that it can be used to ID me. That's the way it works in Germany, hence in Germany there is no requirement to ID the driver, as the picture from the speed camera is used for just that purpose. Am I right that it would pretty much rule out the route of defense of pleading not-guilty?

Thanks again for any answers :-)

Tempest
g_attrill
The wording of the site confused somebody on another forum - it basically means that if you move to the UK when you are 69 you can drive on an EU licence past your 70th birthday, whereas a UK resident would need to renew it.

Gareth
Tempest
Just a question, as another thread here on the forum confused me:

Do all EU licenses get points for offences such as speeding on a DVLA shadow license, and if so, does one have to declare these points on the shadow license to one's insurer?

If that were to be the case, what are my chances of refusing to have to pay a higher penalty rather than the same 60 quid UK-license fixed penalty? Otherwise I feel discriminated, and could i sue for that?

On another note: As mentioned in my first post, my company (which I am a director of) has received a NIP for a speeding offence in the company van. What would happen, if we, the company, stated a foreign address, as I personally still have one (my parents' address abroad on the continent)? What would the scammers do?

If this approach is too risky (and why), then do advise me, and I'll consider the more classic approaches such as Pace et al.

Thanks again :-)

Tempest
roythebus
I suggest you revert to your parent's address as your residence. Post to abroad often "goes astray" and at the moment British debt collection agencies have very little effect on collecting fines outside the UK. Some plods have been know to "insist" that foreign nationals and even Brits who have lived abroad who hold EU licences to exchange them for British licences!

It's probably best for your fellow director to go down the PACE route when filling in the NIP. It is a requirement for the company to keep an accurate record of who drives company vehicles at all times. I say that with some knowledge as the former MD of a bus company.

there is another thread on the ABD site where someone is questioning the legality of camera van camera opertors. Apparently they must be serving police officers as the Home Office rules only certify police officers to use such equipment.
Tempest
Thanks for the answer icon_thumright.gif

QUOTE
It's probably best for your fellow director to go down the PACE route when filling in the NIP
Then ask my colleague to use my foreign address on the Pace?

QUOTE
I say that with some knowledge as the former MD of a bus company.


That's helpful to know regarding any decisions in terms of going down the "we can't identify the driver"-route. :-)

Tempest
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.