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Full Version: Time limit of loading exemption of a single yellow ?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
LittleLuke
Is this a simple 20mins of contineous loading on a single yellow ?

When we have a van full of items to unload it can take 30mins...

TIA

Luke
Teufel
unless there are spcific signs limiting loading time
(or kerb clips limiting when the loading exemption does not apply)
then as much time as necessary and reasonable is allowed

loading needs to be continuous but includes time for
paperwork and arranging items at their destination
but not having a cuppa

see patas jane packer v westminster

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk...nts/LOADADJ.pdf

contains pretty mcuh all you need on the loading exemption

note with a big van you could still maybe be done for obstruction
LittleLuke
Thank you. Camden seem to always issue after 20mins whether you are still loading or not. When we appeal they always seem to allow the appeal. But their wardens always give tickets after 20mins stating 20mins is all that is allowed.

Thanks Teufel

Luke
Teufel
camden is wrong - i seriously suggest you apply for costs
each and every time

the 20minutes is a myth propogated by the councils and illegally
put in PAs handbooks
recycler LMAG
20 minute rule is in Camdens Traffic Orders... applies to both SYLs & DYLs
but only after 11AM (loading allowed for as long as it takes before 11AM provided you are seen to be loading)
& the Traffic Orders also specifically state that Parking Attendants DO have the power top authorise loading after 11AM for longer than 20 minutes (as do Police officers)
which contasts in an ultra vires way with the Service Instruction handed to NCP from Camdne Council which requires a PA to issue a PCN after 21 mins (after 11AM)

I have an e Traffic Order shall I put a link to it for you to have a look at?
LittleLuke
So 20mins is part of the law specific to camden ?

The PA's always say they have to issue the tickets over 20mins... ??

Whats the likelyhood of costs.. and what can u claim costs for?

Could I read the link would help recycler...

Thanks Again
Teufel
please post the traffic orders - i had always thought that these
had no legal force but were only advisory

the burden of proof is always on the parker claiming the exemption

(see patas davies v kensington and douglas v brent)

below the advisory times councils will always accept that a
goods vehicle was loading and so dont issue pcns

above them or with a non goods vehicle then loading must be proven
either to PA so they dont not issue or on appeal

if i am wrong please correct me
Adenuff
QUOTE (Teufel @ Wed, 29 Nov 2006 - 08:34) *
unless there are spcific signs limiting loading time
(or kerb clips limiting when the loading exemption does not apply)
then as much time as necessary and reasonable is allowed


QUOTE (Teufel @ Wed, 29 Nov 2006 - 11:26) *
the 20minutes is a myth propogated by the councils and illegally
put in PAs handbooks



At page 9 of the Jane Packer flowers adjudication it states "The Orders provide an overriding maximum period of waiting under the delivery/unloading exemption of 20 minutes"
recycler LMAG
Camden Traffic Order CAC
LittleLuke
Does this mean that they have discretion when allowing vehicles to stay after 20mins ?

Luke
recycler LMAG
QUOTE (LittleLuke @ Fri, 1 Dec 2006 - 22:03) *
Does this mean that they have discretion when allowing vehicles to stay after 20mins ?

Luke

it means there is a conflict between Camden saying its PAs can authorize loading post 20 mins in the Traffic Orders BUT insisting the contractor issues PCNs after 21 mins

theory v practice..

the PAs claim (& i see no reason to doubt them) they have no authority to approve extended loading period

the Council is in danger of acting ultra vires in this by contradicting its own legal basis for enforcement
LittleLuke
Ty Recycler

Luke
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