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Full Version: TfL PCN stopping on red route - car was being pushed!
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horse
Recd. a PCN from TfL with a photo showing my car on the hatching just before a corner with a traffic light, but it rested here only after an unsuccessful attempt to push start it; and then at the next available gap in the traffic and green light it was pushed round the corner and then into an alleyway to be retreived the next morning.

Is this grounds for appeal, as the screenshots look like council cctv, and will surely show the car being pushed? Anyone have any experience of the appeals process in cases like this
horse
Lose my 50% discount for early payment and take my chances with the appeals procedure on the NTO, or roll over and take it as I don't stand much of a chance... Does anyone have any relevant experience with TfL appeals?
peterb
QUOTE (horse @ Fri, 10 Nov 2006 - 15:00) *
Anyone have any experience of the appeals process in cases like this

Yes, appeal it & ticket should be cancelled.

Appeal in writing within 14 days & ticket should be held at 50%.
Ask them to review video tape & cancel ticket.
They may ask for evidence.

1st appeals are routinely rejected.
If necessary ask to view video, which will also hold ticket at 50%.

If they reject, make formal appeal again on Notice To Owner.
If they reject, appeal to Parking & Traffic Appeals Service (PATAS), I doubt TFL will contest.

peterb

Ps: I received TFL CCTV ticket when broken down at 1am
-appealed & it was cancelled.
horse
thanks peterb, have been working away at a letter as an informal representation before the NTO. Its printed out now, but obviously not going into the post till tomorrow am.

Its reassuring to know someone's been through the process and succeeded.

Heres the letter - didnt want to make it too pushy... if anyone can think of any appropriate changes or problems with what I've got then suggest away.


Re: PCN xxxxxxxxxx issued to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxxx (Red route/clearway stopped where prohibited)


To whom it may concern,


I acknowledge the receipt of the afore mentioned PCN, however I wish to make an informal representation regarding this contravention before receiving the notice to owner.
Of course I accept the importance of the enforcement of the red routes; and ordinarily I would not consider stopping my vehicle in an area designated no stopping – but on this occasion the vehicle was broken down, and I was left with no other option.
As the contravention was recorded on cctv camera, the same camera should also show that the vehicle was being pushed when it rolled into this position.
In fact the vehicle developed a fault, and lost engine power while on Camden High Street, and then cut out and failed to restart using the ignition. At the time myself or my passengers did not know what the fault was, and attempted to push start the car (assuming it was the battery that was the problem). This attempt to push start the car was not successful, and the vehicle was pushed temporarily off the main carriageway and out of the path of vehicles wishing to use the road, to the place where the contravention alleged is seen by yourselves as having taken place. This resting place at the side of the road was chosen in order to eliminate any obstruction that would have been caused by the vehicle remaining non-moving in the main carriageway.
As soon as was safely possible, when there was a gap in the traffic and the traffic light was green, the vehicle was pushed round the corner and into an alleyway to a legal stopping place. When the fault was investigated, it was revealed to be a damaged connection on one of the HT leads, and after replacing this lead, the car was driven away.
Whilst I appreciate that informal appeals are at your discretion, I hope that common sense would prevail, and assuming someone is reading this letter, that you can see that as the car was not movable by its own power, the waiting in the area designated no stopping was unavoidable, and done to minimise the effect on other road users of a vehicle being pushed slowly holding up others..
Examination of the cctv footage should show the car being pushed, and if your office requires, I can provide evidence of the damaged and replaced HT lead.
Please get back to me and let me know you have received this letter. I understand that if I do not pay the charge within 14 days of the date of issue (yesterday 9th november) I can no longer pay the reduced amount as detailed in the PCN, so I would be grateful if you could let me know as soon as practicable if you need any further information or evidence from me.

Anticipating a common sense outcome in this case,


horse
Teufel
there is an expemption from all restriuctions for a broken down
vehicle but the burden of proof is on you - the tape should
be definitive

see patas geffen v westminster

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk...ts/Geffen19.pdf

and for burden patas davies v kensignton
Tony-Medusa
Hi, I had a red route dispute with TfL, for 120 seconds totally unlawfully pursued, after many exchanges and the threat of court action for harassment, they backed down, not without making fools of themselves. I exposed their tactics on link at bottom.
Item TfL on PCNs, the Local Government Ombudsmane was involved and I exposed them too for self contradictions and blindness to the obvious truths they were confronted with, likening their conduct to King Canute defying the laws of nature and thought. They even had prior warning from me they were about to confirm a contradiction which no matter if 3, all forty, or the nation agred with them cannot be defeated in any time or space, being apriori innate to thought, not emprically based. What clear thinkers thay are???
It may be useful to look at rather than bring it over here, being a bit long.
I can't fathomHOW onecan get of a contravention where a breakdown isn't accompanied by an AA report of repairs.
Truth is no longer a defence, funny that!
Proof is, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so how does one get around it, do what I ahve done this apst 8 years.
I have a camera and recorder in my bag when drivign at all times. I had it when challenged byt he MET police, threatened with procedeings on an unsworn perjured section 9 statement, they and the CPS lost in court and the PCA got caught in a contradiction.
Cameras and recorders' the thing.

PS thanks Teufel for that link, I am off to get it......OH it didn't load, from patas.
http://www.logiclaw.co.uk
mercedes5
I recently had a notice of rejection from TFL that is invalid as it does not take into account the additional days allowed for service via the post.

I have requested a PTAS appeal to dispute my PCN based on this. I have received a date for next year. In my correspondence to PTAS I only quoted the reason being non-compliance and I would provide evidence of this at my personal hearing.

There is a chance that TFL haven't corrected their formats yet for their notice of rejections. So you may want to wait till you get the NTO then appeal it on any grounds, the simpler the better to get a quick reply of rejection
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