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tf38
My partner got stung by this notorious camera, can i still appeal on the basis of the camera being prescribed and approved? or does this no longer stand.
Thanks
Neil B
Still ok and still winning 100%

You can send this > https://bit.ly/3CWO1L2

But you must then update us of all events.
tf38
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 20 Oct 2022 - 19:32) *
Still ok and still winning 100%

You can send this > https://bit.ly/3CWO1L2

But you must then update us of all events.

Thanks, will keep you updated
Schofeldt
+ 1. Just hold your nerve as all London councils know exactly what they are doing. Cp, Mr Mustard or I will be happy to represent you.

But, I would also add that the council have lost several cases regarding the camera authorisation issue and a recent review application and were urged by the adjudicator to research the law.
Incandescent
For me the question is - why don't the London councils transfer enforcement to the TMA 2004 ? The powers in that Act for bus lane offences are now authorised for use. There is nothing to stop them as far as I can see. Can it be the penalties under this Act are insufficient for them to make their usual shedloads of money ? Or are they forced by statute to use the London-specific legislation ?
cp8759
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 21 Oct 2022 - 18:04) *
For me the question is - why don't the London councils transfer enforcement to the TMA 2004 ? The powers in that Act for bus lane offences are now authorised for use. There is nothing to stop them as far as I can see. Can it be the penalties under this Act are insufficient for them to make their usual shedloads of money ? Or are they forced by statute to use the London-specific legislation ?

Apparently they didn't want to move away from the LLA 2003 as this would require the cameras to all get approval (cameras need no approval at all under the LLA 2003). They asked the DfT if they could ditch the LLA 1996 only, but the DfT wasn't keen on the idea (I think the DfT would rather ditch all the old legislation in one go, rather than in dribs and drabs).
Incandescent
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 22 Oct 2022 - 15:22) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 21 Oct 2022 - 18:04) *
For me the question is - why don't the London councils transfer enforcement to the TMA 2004 ? The powers in that Act for bus lane offences are now authorised for use. There is nothing to stop them as far as I can see. Can it be the penalties under this Act are insufficient for them to make their usual shedloads of money ? Or are they forced by statute to use the London-specific legislation ?

Apparently they didn't want to move away from the LLA 2003 as this would require the cameras to all get approval (cameras need no approval at all under the LLA 2003). They asked the DfT if they could ditch the LLA 1996 only, but the DfT wasn't keen on the idea (I think the DfT would rather ditch all the old legislation in one go, rather than in dribs and drabs).

Thanks.
I get the impression the Government want to get away from London-specific legislation and have everything on the TMA 2004, is this a correct reading of the situation.
cp8759
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 22 Oct 2022 - 21:52) *
I get the impression the Government want to get away from London-specific legislation and have everything on the TMA 2004, is this a correct reading of the situation.

Yes, as above London Councils resisted this so they didn't bother on this occasion.
Schofeldt
Well, we'll see what transpires after the end of the week. cool.gif
tf38
I challenged this on the 21st October but haven't received any reply/rejection of representation?
Do you think the council has given up!
Glacier2
Nope. Waltham Forest council are in disarray and could take months to answer.
Schofeldt
They will reject and force you to go to the Tribunal where a win is on the cards. Their continuous intransigence is appalling. I am more than happy to take this on one for you, OP. They are trying it on, have little understanding of the law and would be really trying the patience of the Tribunal.
Schofeldt
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Sun, 27 Nov 2022 - 20:45) *
Nope. Waltham Forest council are in disarray and could take months to answer.

All London Councils will now be chewing over this decision won by cp a few days ago: http://bit.ly/3VaEYPt

At least, London Councils HQ have been informed of it. cool.gif

This, from one of their officers:

As you may be aware the majority of authorities in London have VCA approval for their Bus Lane systems under the Transport Act 2000. As you are also no doubt aware this is not relevant (currently) for enforcement under the LLA Act 1996. Manufacturers also have approval for their bus lane systems that are used in London. Again, irrespective of this being a type approved by the SoS (or VCA by extension) it has been deemed that this is challengeable and most likely not acceptable under the LLA Act 1996.

And so, they just rely on the vast majority who just cough up and do not take it the full distance where success is assured.

These are the fully contested decisions to date as far as I know as well as the one above: 2220294867; 2220503650; 2210860888; 2220271919; 2220492907; 2210250967; 2220492805; 2160470243; 2220026347; 2210767543.

The most recent one, of course, corroborates all the others.
Incandescent
Their knavish tricks can continue unless there is a judicial review that confirms the decision. All they will do now, is DNC anybody that takes them to London Tribunals, and collect the dosh from the other 95% of recipients who just cough-up.

"Frustrate their politics, confound their knavish tricks"
cp8759
I'm now going to be pursuing costs against all WF formal NORs, they're on notice as to the correct legal position and if they carry on regardless, they'll have to cough up.

We got £123.50 out of Lambeth for a bus lane PCN last week.
Schofeldt
All for one and one for all. We will need protection soon. cool.gif
Schofeldt
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sun, 27 Nov 2022 - 22:34) *
Their knavish tricks can continue unless there is a judicial review that confirms the decision. All they will do now, is DNC anybody that takes them to London Tribunals, and collect the dosh from the other 95% of recipients who just cough-up.

"Frustrate their politics, confound their knavish tricks"

The VCA and London Councils are now talking to each other big time with the former advising the latter to get their certificates in order. I am more than happy to apply for a JR but locus standi is the problem. The money isn't as I am a skint pensioner, though the body and brain are in excellent shape! Ask any adjudicator! Still trying to reach the magic 20. rolleyes.gif
tf38
Well LBWF finally responded to my representation & guess what they have cancelled the PCN, i guess they now know they cant win at tribunal!!
Many thanks for everyone's help.

Schofeldt
Self-righteous drivel. I will contact you privately as to the next course of action.

This should be reported to Mr Chan and your MP and local councillor. Why? Because this whole saga should be heard before the Transport Select Committee.
cp8759
Maybe we should have a special draft for WF cases to be sent at the informal reps stage, along the lines of "look, this is a pepipoo case and you know it's only going to end one way, so why not save us all the bother and just cancel now?"
Schofeldt
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 14 Jan 2023 - 01:28) *
Maybe we should have a special draft for WF cases to be sent at the informal reps stage, along the lines of "look, this is a pepipoo case and you know it's only going to end one way, so why not save us all the bother and just cancel now?"

They are one of the councils who have applied to the VCA for approval.
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