Hello,

I had my vehicle towed a few months ago for being parked on double yellow lines. I paid the charge to get my vehicle back and then put an appeal in which I had to do by emailing the council, I received an automatic reply saying I'd receive a response within 56 days.

As I understand it the council has to respond to my appeal within 56 days or they then have to refund the money, is this correct? I have now chased this up with them but also getting no response. I have called the council and just get told they have the email but no mention of when it is going to be dealt with.

What can I do now to make the council refund the money? Can I report it to someone or do I need to take it to a small claims court?

Are you saying it's gone beyond 56 days since you made reps in the method specified?

There isn't anything yo can do until you get a letter of rejection (or acceptance).

Are you the vehicle keeper and is the V5C address completely correct - don't assume, check.

There is a court procedure you can use to get your money back but it is not a claim via the small claims track, there is a specific procedure you must follow. However before we even get to that, an appropriately worded pre-action letter to the legal department should do the trick.

In order that we can know what we are dealing with, please post up all the paperwork, just redact your name and address.

Stamfordman in a removal case the V5C should be irrelevant, as the right to make reps rests with the person who recovered the vehicle, and the response should go to whatever address is given in the reps. I don't think the council could even lawfully request the address from DVLA in such a case.

Ok that's interesting - if an email was sent with no address the OP should have a good look in junk/spam folder.

I have had no reply by email or letter, checked all junk/spam etc. When I spoke to them they said they had received the email but didn't tell me they had responded so I presume they haven't.

But am I right in thinking that if they do not respond within 56 day they have to refund the money, wether they accept my appeal or not?

Thanks

Post all the materials.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited. https://imgbb.com has BBCode to embed pics on the forum. Set uploads not to autodelete if signed up and using https://imgbb.com Or use Google Docs etc.

I can do when I get home, but I don't really have much. Just a rather shoddy generic letter that was given to me by the towing company on how to appeal and the automatic reply to my email.. I don't have any paperwork specifically addressed to me.

Which Council?

Yes, the relevant enforcement provision is in regulation 15(3) here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...ulation/15/made but it would require an N244 application, the costs of which would be recoverable as long as you take the appropriate pre-action steps (which are likely to see the council pay up without the need to issue proceedings).

OK great, I don't fully understand that legal jargon so I'll take you're word for it.

So if I submit an N244 that essentially says I am taking Hounslow council to court to refund the amount because they haven't addressed my concern within the given period?

Thanks

No, first you have to give them a reasonable chance to comply without the need for court action (the courts take the view that going to court should be a remedy of last resort, after you have exhausted all other options).

We can guide you along the process but we need the relevant information first. Firstly please post up the paperwork you have received, as a minimum you must have a PCN and the vehicle release form from the council. Also on what date did you make representations, and by what means? Email, post? What evidence do you have about this?

You're getting too gung-ho about this. Slow down.

So far you've not obliged us with any solid evidence, the nearest we've come is 'I received an automatic reply saying I'd receive a response within 56 days.'.

The procedure is:
A person collects the vehicle, in this case you. They release the car, therefore you've presented evidence of your entitlement to recover the vehicle.
When you paid they provided you with a receipt, details of the PCN and instructions on how to make representations.

Yet you have shown us none of this, you keep repeating 'if they've not replied within 56 days..'.

And yet you're now going off half-cock seeking to involve the courts when, as cp posted earlier, a properly worded letter to the council's legal department should suffice, and it's free.

So, do we get to see docs or not?

The regs are here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...ulation/11/made

Yeah the paperwork is at home and I am working away so once I am home I will post it.

All I have is the receipt for the payment, the original PCN and a letter on how to appeal. As I say, I will post these when I can.

I'm not going gung ho, I am just getting very frustrated to the lack of action or acknoledgement from the council and there doesn't seem to be anyone to contact or speak to and doesn't seem to be any course of action for me. They have taken my money, I have appealed this by email as requested in the letter and the time for them to respond has passed yet I am no further forward. I am sure this is very low on their list of priorites, so if I need to take legal action to make them listen to me then that is what I am prepared to do.

Once we have the docs I can draft something for you.

Fantastic thank you. I will post them up after the 18th Dec when I am home.

Hello,

Sorry for the delay in uploading these, just got home this weekend.

Here are links to the paperwork I had:

https://ibb.co/z2vHtRC
https://ibb.co/svRxtMp
https://ibb.co/qWfggHF
https://ibb.co/N6v3bg2
https://ibb.co/vXgjxfD
https://ibb.co/SNgZ6Gy

Thanks

Can we see the representation email and the automatic reply please?

Yes please find below

https://ibb.co/CQkV352
https://ibb.co/xLW9cg3

Sorry if this is a dumb question but did you put the PCN number & number plate in the representation email?

Also tell us the date of the email please.

Yes I did. The original email was the 15th September.

OK so you have two possible routes:

1) Council complaints process, which might be slower and may require escalation to the Local Government Ombudsman, but it's free, or

2) The litigation route, i.e. send a pre-action letter and if that doesn't work, issue an application in the county court. If done properly this cannot fail but it does require payment of an application notice fee of £275 (although if things are done properly, this is fully recoverable from the council so you'll get it all back, and if you're on a very low income you don't have to pay it at all as you would qualify for a fee remission).

Which one you prefer is up to you, I'd go for option two because I'm somewhat litigious but it's obviously up to you.

Thank you.

Well I've tried contacting the council several times over the matter and there doesn't seem to be anyone to raise it with or escalate it to. The last time I managed to speak to someone on the phone they just advised someone will look into it.

So I will have to look into taking legal action. Do you have a template of a letter I am able to use or advise on where I could find one?

Thanks

Just choose the option and CP will draft a letter for you before sending to Council

OP, you can see the requirements for making reps by email, they're in the notice:

Name;
Postal address;
Signature*

Signature is taken to be: 'the name of the person making them in the message header or main body text.

Failing any of the above would permit the authority to disregard. Please confirm that you complied with all requirements.

Well I've tried contacting the council several times over the matter and there doesn't seem to be anyone to raise it with or escalate it to. The last time I managed to speak to someone on the phone they just advised someone will look into it.


So, since making reps you have not written to the authority, despite them being 2 months past the 56 days. (Pl confirm. Alternatively, post this correspondence)

My reference to gung-ho is to an overtly legalistic approach when what's needed is written evidence the reps complied with requirements and that the 56 days has elapsed.

IMO, you don't need a pre-action letter, you need a pre-pre action letter.

Dear Sir,
PCN No. ****** VRM ******

I recovered the above vehicle on ** and subsequently made compliant representations on *** to which I received an auto acknowledgement on the same day, see copies enclosed.

As the 56-day period allowed for serving a response has elapsed(by 2 months), please advise what is the current position.

PS. your reps were incorrect, of course a PCN was served, it was recovered with the vehicle and produced when you recovered the vehicle!
The owner does not get served with a PCN, so that limb of your reps falls.

But this is less to do with the substantive issue regarding the contravention than procedural.

I contacted them several times by email as well getting no response, as I mentioned a phone call in which I was fobbed off. I can send a letter of course however since they have not responded to my emails or my original rep I won't hold my breath for a response.

And yes I held little hope that my appeal would be upheld and expected a response telling me as much but since they haven't responded in any way they are in contravention of the law and as far as I understand I am now entitled to a full refund hence why I am approaching it from a legalistic point of view as they are less likely to ignore me. I feel like a letter would be added to a large pile of letters.

You wouldn't be sending the pre action letter to the same dept, for a start. It'd go to legal. They tend to take these more seriously.


Did you check junk email from day 1? They tend to auto clear after 7 days

As I said I can draft something that will force them to respond, but you have to choose whether you want to go down the complaints process route or the court route, as I explained here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1685111

Tell me which one you prefer and I will draft something for you, I know which one I'd use but it's your money so it has to be your decision. The fact that your previous complaints have been ignored makes not one iota of difference, we kind of know what we're doing and it's not as if we haven't had to deal with this scenario before.

OK thank you well I will try the free route first and exhaust that avenue before I spend more money. If you could draft something I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

Send your complaint to feedback@hounslow.gov.uk with the subject "Stage 1 formal complaint" and attach PDF print-outs of both the representation email and the automatic acknowledgment.

----------------------

Dear London Borough of Hounslow,

I wish to raise a formal complaint about the council's failure to respond to the representations I made in respect of penalty charge notice NJ34291745. Please note this is NOT a complaint about the outcome of my appeal, this is strictly a complaint about the fact that the council has not given any response at all.

I recovered my vehicle from the pound on 11 September 2021 and I made representations against the PCN and the removal of the vehicle on 15 September 2021, so clearly within the 28 day statutory period. Under the Traffic Management Act 2004 the council should have served a Notice of Acceptance or a Notice of Rejection within 56 days, i.e. by 10 November 2021.

I have been waiting for a response for over three months and this is an unacceptable level of delay, please would the council consider my representations and let me know the outcome, one way or the other. I attach a copy of my representations email and a copy of the automated acknowledgment I received. Please note previous attempts to solicit a response have gone unanswered, I therefore require that this matter be now logged as a formal complaint and require a complaint reference number.

In line with stage 1 of your Corporate Complaints Policy, I look forward to receiving a response within 15 working days.

Yours faithfully.

Brilliant, thank you so much

Hello,

Update, today I have received this response:


Thank you for your below email which has been received by the Customer Relations Team at the London Borough of Hounslow Council.

I am sorry to hear of the issues you have experienced regarding lack of response. I can confirm that I have logged your concerns as a Stage 1 complaint in line with our Corporate Complaints policy.

This is recorded under reference number XXXXXX. Your complaint will be investigated and responded to by the Head of Service and you will receive the response within 15 working days.

Further details about the Corporate Complaints policy can be found at the following link:

https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/complaintspolicy

Kind regards,


I will await the outcome of the complaint.

Thanks for your help so far.