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mr_nice
I have just got my first speeding ticket 87mph on a single carriagway where the speed limit is 60mph. Guilty as charged.
The letter recieved says "I exceeded 60mph single carriageway (police operated equip contary to A3 TSLO 1977 S89(1) RTRA 1984 & SCH2 RTOA 1988
The recorded speed was 87Mph
The form I was sent is marked NIP/HES verison 8.0 The letter recieved asked who was driving, weather the car was mine etc. So I have returned it stating that I was driving. Does this mean that I am likly to recieve a summons for a court appearance ?? If you ask me its got 6 points written all over this one ......
Two questions,
1/ Is there much to gain by attending court in person (I was caught some way from where I live) so it will mean a bit of a drive and knowing my luck I will get caught again LOL and apologsing.

2/ When can I get to see the photograhic eveidence - someone has told me that if there was no photo then it would not go to court, can this happen if the camara has run out of film although I would assume that its all digital anyway ...

3/ Whats likely to happen next, I am assuming that a fixed penality notice is out of the question.

Any advice as always appreciated.
firefly
Hi Mr_Nice,

Someone better qualified can answer question 1 for you :

QUOTE (Mr_Nice)
2/ When can I get to see the photograhic eveidence - someone has told me that if there was no photo then it would not go to court, can this happen if the camara has run out of film although I would assume that its all digital anyway ...

Since you have already admitted that you were the driver, why would you want to view the photographs? The camera in question sounds like an Lti20/20 which is a manually operated device. In which case they will have a copy of the video which they used to issue the NIP. Read this post for possible options.
mr_nice
My reasons are if the police can't supply the photo / video then it will not go to court .... ??
firefly
Hi Mr_Nice,

QUOTE
My reasons are if the police can't supply the photo / video then it will not go to court .... ??


Just to clarify, supply the video to whom exactly? You or the Crown Prosecution Service?
mr_nice
Maybe I am being stupid but I would like to a copy as I am assuming that it would be the same copy as will be used in court by the CPS. If they cannot supply me with the copy then I would expect that the CPS would not have a copy.
firefly
Hi Mr_Nice,

I think your friend has been supplying you with bum information. rolleyes.gif

If you admit that you were guilty of driving at 87 in a 60mph zone and sent back a signed NIP stating that this was the case, then the police do not need to supply you a video at this stage.

The only time a video will be supplied (and even then it seems they are reluctant) is if a summons to appear at court comes through your door and you plead "not guilty". Since you admitted the offence by signing the NIP, it is hard to see how you could credibly plead "not guilty".

Photographs are more readily available from the police, but they are normally asked for by people who wish to establish the identity of a driver when they are unsure as to who it was.
FastShow
Hang on FF - surely the NIP is just asking for information as to who was driving at the time? Mr Nice has said he was driving at the time of the alleged offence - he can still quite easily plead 'not guilty' to the speeding, since the equipment could be broken, the offence could be made up, it could be a cloned car, blah, blah, blah...

I think Mr Nice is in a perfect position to plead not guilty and then request disclosure of all the evidence for his hearing.

Unless I've missed something here?
cjm99
I agree with Fastshow entirely.


Chris
mr_nice
By signing this form tha was sent to me and I am not sure if it was the official NIP form as I have studied it and it appears to be called a Reply to notice form It just asks
If I was driving
How to inform the safety camara unit that you were the drive
What to do if you believe there were mitigating circumstances
If you were not driving the vehicle during the alleged offence
How to niminate the driver or a different keeper
What to do if your not sure who is driving
If the vehicle is stolen

1/ Is this what you all call a NIP

2/ Is the fine based on what I earn and how do the courts find out what I earn anyway ??
firefly
Hi all,

QUOTE (Fastshow)
Hang on FF - surely the NIP is just asking for information as to who was driving at the time? Mr Nice has said he was driving at the time of the alleged offence - he can still quite easily plead 'not guilty' to the speeding, since the equipment could be broken, the offence could be made up, it could be a cloned car, blah, blah, blah


I couldn't agree more icon_wink.gif . But Mr_Nice is asking specifically if he can see the video/photographic evidence now in the hope that if the police can't supply it, then it can't go to court. What I have said is that the only way he can get the evidence is if he pleads "not guilty" when his summons arrives and asks for full video disclosure.

QUOTE (Mr_Nice)
I have just got my first speeding ticket 87mph on a single carriagway where the speed limit is 60mph. Guilty as charged. <>...3/ Whats likely to happen next, I am assuming that a fixed penality notice is out of the question.


Mr_Nice is giving the impression that, "Oh well, I might as well accept it as it is a fair cop, maybe I can get off on a technicality though."

All I am saying is that there is virtually no chance of him getting the video evidence unless he pleads not guilty to a summons, which (I am inferring) he doesn't want to do since he seems to have accepted the charge.
firefly
QUOTE (firefly)
Since you admitted the offence by signing the NIP, it is hard to see how you could credibly plead "not guilty".


Sorry, I do accept that this is poorly worded. icon_redface.gif Getting my NIPs and FPNs mixed up.

The above reply still stands though.
mr_nice
First I am quite happy to plead not guilty and fight ......
Just want to know facts and my options.

Have I recieved a NIP ??? is this the form that I filled out saying that I was driving ??
firefly
QUOTE (Mr_Nice)
First I am quite happy to plead not guilty and fight ......  
Just want to know facts and my options....  <>The form I was sent is marked NIP/HES verison 8.0


It appears that you have been sent an NIP. The heading is unfamiliar in terms of HES. Don't know what that is.

The best course of action now is to sit back and let nature take it's course icon_eek.gif . No doubt you will receive a summons in due course. Once this appears, you can plead not guilty and then seek full video disclosure.

See this thread for full details.

Post back when you receive your summons.

I apologise for assuming you were going to "roll over" and accept this. The content of your posts seemed to indicate that this is what you were going to do.

Good luck.
mr_nice
Firefly,

I was going roll over until I found this excellent site, it has now given me options of which I intend to explore.....
Thanks.
mr_nice
Well the latest ....

To recap caught doing 87 in a 60 mph, signed the NIP.

I have since spoken to the camera partnership people and they have explained that this will probably be going to court although I have not herd anything yet...early days.
I have also asked for the photo and it clearly shows me driving the car. The alledged offence happened on the A303 illminister road. I thought that it was a 70 mph speed limit the picture clearly shows 2 lanes oncoming and 1 lane my side (3 lane in total). The photo was taken from the other side of the road with me facing the camera. There are 2 photos and one is a zoomed in picture.
There are no others cars pictured in the photo.
Now need some advice on what to do next. If I plead not guilty what defence can I use when the picture shows me doing 87mph.
I am expecting £400 fine and 6 points so its worth fighting BUT if I lose the court case what realistically can I expect.
Thanks.
mr_nice
I could post a picture if it helps ......
cjm99
What was the device used to capture you. Was it an Lti20-20?




Chris
mr_nice
I will phone up tommorow and let you know.
Blackbird
mr nice

The notorious Ilminster By Pass!
Can't be certain but I suspect fixed camera. A&S recently declared that all their cameras met the KSI statistics (and they had removed those that didn't) I asked on the Yahoo unsigned forum for any cameras that people knew didn't meet the KSI figures - the A303 ones came up as having been there since the road opened. Not a defence I know but a little 'digging' might give some ammunition if the case goes to court.

If you can post the photo (suitably doctored!) we might be able to find out what 'caught' you and suggest a course of action. Might even know the location!

Best Regards
mr_nice
Blackbird,

I will try post a photo tommorow, I think that it was a hand held device as there is a small white cross where they are obvously aiming at my vehicle. Remeber that it was also take from in front of me AND on the opposite side of the road .......
Thanks.
TonyOut
I was once convicted of 89.02 in a 60. Four points and £100 fine. Pleaded poverty! and got it down to £10 per month. Surely you are entitled to similar treatment under EHCR???

How the times have changed.
mr_nice
Right the police camera helpdesk team are not sure what camera was used but looking at the pictures it looks like a Lti20-20.
It has the log in the bottom right hand side and the 2 pictures sent to me are 3 seconds apart. I still have not recieved either a fixed penality notice or a court summons only the NIP which I signed,
It looks difficult to put pictures in to this post. If anyone would like a copy to tell me there views then I can send them to you as an attachment. In the meantime I will try put them on my website and supply a link ......
I realise i can go not guilty and request the evidence but then what do I do ????????
Has anyone else been to court re defending the Lti20-20 sppeding charge.
Cheers.
cjm99
QUOTE
Has anyone else been to court re defending the Lti20-20 sppeding charge.  
Cheers.



Mika has a big case on the 20 April which should give clarity

Otherwise, a number of people have pressed for full disclosure, but their cases have been dropped to avoid disclosure icon_eek.gif icon_eek.gif


Chris
mr_nice
Interesting ... Why would the police not disclose the video ??
By law do they have to disclose the whole video, part of the video or are the pictures enough OR will we know after the 20th April...
Incidently is there a thread that I can follow re the case in court on the 20th April ???
Cheers
cjm99
QUOTE
Why would the police not disclose the video
We are not absolutely sure icon_eyes.gif This is still being kept away from the CPS. But the police usage is suspect icon_eek.gif



QUOTE
By law do they have to disclose the whole video

Yes, but only after you have been summonsed, pleaded not guilty, then requested ALL of the video.

QUOTE
Incidently is there a thread that I can follow re the case in court on the 20th April ???


Yes, you join the 'naughty boyz & Girlz and get access to some sensitive threads.


Chris

Chris
mr_nice
Here are the photos ......

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/album_full...c_photo=7727989

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/album_full...c_photo=7727990

I hope this works ???[/img]

<img src="
mr_nice
Oh and of course the alledged speeding offence occured in my wifes Vauxhall Zafiria it just can't get any worse ...... sad.gif I mean a Zafiria ....
mr_nice
Seems to be problems so try this link ...

http://www.photobox.co.uk/public/detail.ht...?c_album=631081
mr_nice
I guess my next step is to go for disclosure of the complete video,
matt1133
so has the vid been disclosed in the bristol appeal ?
mr_nice
As you can see from the pics the first picture shows the Speed but the number plate cannot be read and the second picture shows my number plate although the there is no speed. I will be pleading not guilty and ask for the video. Has anyone else got this far ?? Are there any court cases coming up regarding video disclosure ??? I believe that the Bristol court case recently was different from my situation,
Cheers
mr_nice
I have spoken to the partnership who have said that this will be going to court so I am waiting for the summons. Is there anything that I should be doing now ........ ??? e.g asking to view the video, requesting statements etc. I think that I have to wait, plead not guilty and then go full disclosure. Just don't want to miss anything.
How long do I get to plead not guilty after my summons arrives.
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