Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Driving whilst over the prescribed limit
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
ray300193
On 9th May I was kicked out of the house by my ex partner at 3am and had consumed 2 glasses of red wine. I went to drive home and on a main road passed a police car who immediately put their brakes on, knowing I was likely to be pulled I took a turn into a back street, parked the car, threw the keys and hid in a nearby garden hoping to evade being caught. About 15 seconds later the police car pulled into the side street and parked up next to my car, I was found a few minutes later in the garden. The officer arrested me, took me to the station where I blew 55. I was released roughly 6 hours later without interview or speaking to a solicitor but was charged and given my bail sheet but no charge sheet.

I am waiting to go to the local magistrates court next month.

I was not caught whilst driving, did not at any point admit to driving the vehicle and no keys were retrieved by the police. There was only one officer in the vehicle and there is no video evidence of me driving / leaving the vehicle.

What is likely to happen? Is it likely that I am able to fight this or will I just have to plead guilty at the first opportunity to receive a more lenient ban / fine?

I have paid for a telephone consultation from a solicitor at a local legal company and they have basically said that the police officers word will be taken as evidence and it would be my word against theirs, so I would almost certainly be found guilty anyway.

Surely there needs to be concrete evidence to convict someone of a crime, in my eyes there is beyond reasonable doubt that I was driving the vehicle?
AntonyMMM
QUOTE (ray300193 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 11:24) *
Surely there needs to be concrete evidence to convict someone of a crime, in my eyes there is beyond reasonable doubt that I was driving the vehicle?


The officer will say he/she saw you driving the car and then found you hiding close to your parked vehicle (which had a warm engine), and recognised you. To rebut that you would have to give evidence yourself, and what are you going to say when under oath in the witness box ?

( although admitting you were driving on a public forum probably isn't the best way to start putting together such a defence anyway)
Durzel
Pleading guilty early would reduce the fine by 1/3. That's about the best you can hope for, to be brutally honest.

Driving a short distance can be a mitigating factor, but under the circumstances (abandoning the car and hiding) it is unlikely to be successful since the contention would be that if you had not spotted a Police car you would've driven for as long as you needed to.
ray300193
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 12:12) *
QUOTE (ray300193 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 11:24) *
Surely there needs to be concrete evidence to convict someone of a crime, in my eyes there is beyond reasonable doubt that I was driving the vehicle?


The officer will say he/she saw you driving the car and then found you hiding close to your parked vehicle (which had a warm engine), and recognised you. To rebut that you would have to give evidence yourself, and what are you going to say when under oath in the witness box ?

( although admitting you were driving on a public forum probably isn't the best way to start putting together such a defence anyway)


Better off being completely honest like I have been with the solicitor. I could've fabricated a story saying someone else was driving and ran off but wasn't caught.

As I have told the solicitor what happened we have to have a negative defence where I will not be questioned, it is up to the cps to prove I was driving. That is why I thought that the defence of beyond reasonable doubt could come in to effect.

QUOTE (Durzel @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 12:20) *
Pleading guilty early would reduce the fine by 1/3. That's about the best you can hope for, to be brutally honest.

Driving a short distance can be a mitigating factor, but under the circumstances (abandoning the car and hiding) it is unlikely to be successful since the contention would be that if you had not spotted a Police car you would've driven for as long as you needed to.


Correct yeah.

I was roughly 6 miles from home, I should have just walked in hindsight but it was 3am and pretty cold. I'm more annoyed at the fact that I'm 6ft 4 and weigh 18stones, 2 glasses of red wine should not have made me that much over the limit, I felt absolutely fine. Just goes to show you never really know with alcohol.
southpaw82
So... you’ve got a solicitor, you’ve had a privileged conversation with them where you’ve admired the offence... and you’ve now come into a public forum to admit the offence to do what exactly? Confirm their advice? I can’t see a purpose to this thread.
ray300193
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 12:53) *
So... you’ve got a solicitor, you’ve had a privileged conversation with them where you’ve admired the offence... and you’ve now come into a public forum to admit the offence to do what exactly? Confirm their advice? I can’t see a purpose to this thread.


Essentially I am just looking for a second opinion.

I've heard countless occurrences where people haven't been convicted of driving over the limit as they were not caught in the car / with the keys.

I travel regularly around the UK due to work commitments and will undoubtedly lose my employment if I am charged.

I guess what I am hoping to achieve in this thread is to know if I need to prepare myself for the worst and start looking for other employment opportunities or to see if there is any basis which could prevent me from being convicted given the lack of evidence.
I am Weasel
Given that this is a public forum and that the police have been known to produce copies of posts/threads from it as evidence when prosecuting motoring offences, I suspect that your chances of "getting away with it" are now vanishingly small
AntonyMMM
QUOTE (ray300193 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:08) *
I guess what I am hoping to achieve in this thread is to know if I need to prepare myself for the worst and start looking for other employment opportunities or to see if there is any basis which could prevent me from being convicted given the lack of evidence.


Sorry for the reality check, but based on what you have said the evidence they will present, i.e what they saw, with the addition of your attempt to hide and evade arrest will be more than enough to convict you unless a credible defence is put forward.

ray300193
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:20) *
QUOTE (ray300193 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:08) *
I guess what I am hoping to achieve in this thread is to know if I need to prepare myself for the worst and start looking for other employment opportunities or to see if there is any basis which could prevent me from being convicted given the lack of evidence.


Sorry for the reality check, but based on what you have said the evidence they will present, i.e what they saw, with the addition of your attempt to hide and evade arrest will be more than enough to convict you unless a credible defence is put forward.


Thanks for the input. Not entirely sure why others are putting condescending replies.

Looks like I'll be better off pleading guilty at the first opportunity and taking a reduced fine.
southpaw82
I can’t see why you couldn’t be convicted. You can’t advance a positive defence and would be putting the prosecution to proof. Based on what you’ve said (found hiding near the car a short time later with no obvious excuse to be there, no explanation given) I can see a court drawing a proper inference that you were the driver.
Logician
Beyond reasonable doubt is by no means the same as beyond any doubt, given the circumstances as set out in post #2 there would appear to be no reasonable doubt that it was you who was driving your car. What could you possible say to explain matters otherwise? That you were kidnapped as part of a botched attempt to steal your car by perpetrators who panicked when they saw the police car, stopped the car and ran off, leaving you hiding for fear they returned? It is possible, but not in the least likely, and as Lord Denning said that would be sufficient for a conviction.

I actually sat on a similar case where a driver was followed by police, drove into his own road where he knew his neighbour had a similar vehicle, threw the keys over a wall and claimed some sort of mistaken identity. We had no difficulty at all in convicting him.
TryOut
QUOTE (ray300193 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:30) *
QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:20) *
QUOTE (ray300193 @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:08) *
I guess what I am hoping to achieve in this thread is to know if I need to prepare myself for the worst and start looking for other employment opportunities or to see if there is any basis which could prevent me from being convicted given the lack of evidence.


Sorry for the reality check, but based on what you have said the evidence they will present, i.e what they saw, with the addition of your attempt to hide and evade arrest will be more than enough to convict you unless a credible defence is put forward.


Thanks for the input. Not entirely sure why others are putting condescending replies.

Looks like I'll be better off pleading guilty at the first opportunity and taking a reduced fine.

There isn't going to be any lack of evidence though. If you can come up with a reasonable story that explains why you are in a garden in the early hours of the morning just next to a car that you are presumably insured to drive and probably registered to you and that has been seen by an police office just moments before being driven by someone that looks just like you.

I am figuring you are called Raymond and your birthday is 30 Jan 1993. You have admitted the offence on a forum that can be read by anyone in the world with a PC connected to the web.

I can't see anyone being "condescending". Straightforward yes, condescending no, they are simply advising you as you seem to have asked for their advice.

The only hope you have is either denial, that won't work, or a solicitor who can tie up the police in knots about the validity of the alcohol reading. Solicitors to do the latter are available but they are not free on the Internet.
blackcross
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 8 Sep 2020 - 13:55) *
2 regular sized glasses shouldn't put you over the limit.


We did an interesting test of this at a bench meeting with help from Lion, who make one of the most frequently used station machines. Very slim lady who had not eaten all day, chugged two glasses of white wine and gave samples 60 and 90 mins later. She blew well under.
Durzel
If it were me I'd concentrate my mind on making a statement on how it was a moment of madness in an otherwise blemish free driving history (assuming this is true), and the that events that had occured earlier in the night meant you weren't thinking straight and paniced upon sight of the Police car. This would be to attempt to offset any negative reading of your attempt to evade the Police, and to hope that the courts merely impose the mandatory disqualification period, rather than anything harsher. Nothing you've said constitutes any kind of defence to the charge so you have to prepare yourself for 12 months minimum disqualification.

That being said, it may simply be the case that this is routine for the courts and the judge will not take an overly dim view of the circumstances and/or in the circumstances of an early guilty plea not dwell on them? Maybe others can comment.
Logician
Sentencing tends to stick close to the guidelines, I do not think any negative consequences in sentencing will follow from the OP's attempts at evasion, but it does mean it might be more difficult to persuade the court that there had been a false reading owing to mouth alcohol or regurgitation or anything like that since despite his earlier comment (I'm more annoyed at the fact that I'm 6ft 4 and weigh 18stones, 2 glasses of red wine should not have made me that much over the limit, I felt absolutely fine. Just goes to show you never really know with alcohol.) he thought it worthwhile to go to considerable lengths to avoid being tested.

It is worth a reminder that the disqualification period may be reduced by one week per month of the original period by taking a drink-drive rehabilitation course.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.