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Full Version: 3 years, over £1000 in paid tickets, a CCJ and an unsuccessful N244 later ... I need help!
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COD1901
Hello all,

New user so forgive me if this advice is posted elsewhere … having had a good look, I couldn't find anything which would directly help so felt it best to post.

I'll try - and probably fail - to keep it brief with the pertinent details, but this is an issue which relates to Civil Enforcement Limited. Well, a number of issues which have probably been compounded by my own mistakes (I wish I'd found this forum much earlier …) but mostly because CE Ltd genuinely are absolute cowboys.

I had a number of tickets from them in 2017 - 2018. I ignored them (my own ignorance … I thought they'd go away), until they escalated to threats about court action in 2018 and 2019. Rather than have any impact on my credit file, I settled them all (or so I thought) to the tune of almost £1000.

It was after paying all these tickets that I was made aware that a CCJ had been logged against me in May 2018 for a previous ticket from them. I say made aware because they had not mentioned this at any stage when paying off the other tickets, nor was it reflected on my Experian Credit File … because they'd been writing to my old address. A PCN was issued in July 2017, I moved out of the property in Nov 2017 (updated with DVLA at this stage) but CE had continued to write to my old address, including all notices of an escalation to court / CCJ threat. in May 2018, a CCJ was put against me, and I only found this out in 2019 when using a second credit reference agency.

I completed a N244 and paid the circa £250 fee to have this go to court and struck off. Basis of my argument was they had not followed BPA guidelines in making sure they had the correct address, and that I was given no notice of this legal escalation and therefore no chance to settle / defend myself. The county court judge seemed to have an issue with me doing this in late 2019, with the CCJ being registered in May 2018, questioning why it took me so long … I made it clear that CE hadn't advised me when I'd been settling all of my other tickets, nor had they written to me at the correct address, nor was it reflected on my credit file so I only completed an N244 once I was made aware after a mortgage decline. In any case, the judge dismissed my case to have it struck off (on the basis that I wasn't disputing the issuing of the original ticket). Didn't seem right to me at all, that I can have a CCJ registered with correspondence sent to an old address and no chance to represent myself, and it meant I'd now wasted another £250 on fees. Both calls and letters to CE were a waste of time.

CE have since issued me with 2 more parking tickets. I had written to them last month (will post this most recent correspondence below) offering to pay them, as well as the original ticket which caused the CCJ, on the basis that they remove the CCJ. Their response was laughable - it ignored everything, and simply said that they will accept the original penalty of £60 for one of the new tickets (no reference to the other ticket, or the issue of the CCJ … I suspect someone from admin just sent me the response, as opposed to their lawyers / anyone within a legal team).

Ultimately, I really really need some advice on how I can get this issue resolved. I expect I'll be dragged across the coals by you guys, for so many errors on my behalf, but I'd genuinely appreciate some constructive help. I won't get all emotional, but this CCJ has impacted me hugely … I have been declined on mortgages (when I was unaware of the CCJ!) and unable to refinance my credit cards, despite Experian showing a great credit score etc. This issue has caused me a lot of emotional stress, and I've tried to explore all the avenues in the 'right way', such as going to court to explain why a CCJ shouldn't be registered against me without notice, through to offering to pay CE's costs in removing it from my file, all to no avail. Really at a loss as to where to go to next, as I'm loathe to waste even more money on trying to get legal action.

Most recent letter sent to them, referenced above

Legal Department
Civil Enforcement Limited
Horton House
Exchange Flags
Liverpool
L2 3PF


Letter re: PCN 2***
Re: PCN 9***
Re: PCN resulting in CCJ registered in May 2018

Vehicle Registration: ***


To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you in relation to the above penalties, having recently received 2 further PCN’s (2*** & 9***). I write to you in offer of settlement on these charges, as well as a historic one – which was logged in error and in breach of BPA principles – which I am hoping to reach an agreeable resolution on.

I am happy to make an immediate payment of both the above, more recent PCN’s, on their initial penalties, and do not dispute those. The main issue I would like to enter into dialogue in resolving, having sought independent legal advice, is to settle the outstanding penalty which resulted in a CCJ (May 2018), and to have it set aside.

To give the context, yourselves (Civil Enforcement Limited) wrote to me in relation to a parking ticket in July 2017 at *OLD ADDRESS*. I moved from this property in November 2017, which can be evidenced by bank statements, utility bills, the electoral roll and most pertinent to this case, the DVLA.

Unfortunately, you did not check my address as you escalated the process. The result of this is a number of sensitive letters were being received by an unknown third party (the occupants of the property), and my details were presumably being passed on to third party legal firms and debt collection agencies. Aside from this being a serious GDPR issue and compromise of personal data, as you were sending sensitive information to an incorrect address, it has resulted in me being declined for credit and adversely affecting me for the previous 18 months. All of this would have been resolved if I had been made aware or notified of intended court hearing. At no point was I made aware, or given a chance to reach a resolution with you. Furthermore, it is worth noting that this appears in breach of BPA member requirements, to ensure correct and accurate information is being recorded.

It is worth highlighting that prior to being made aware of this Judgement (CCJ) on my credit file, I received several letters from you in relation to outstanding penalty charges. Within the past 12 months, I have paid in excess of £850 relating to numerous parking tickets, to avoid having a county court judgement registered against me. It was only after settling all these, that I was made aware of this judgement from May 2018.

Whilst the fees I have paid are clearly significant, and I have incurred significant financial impact by the adverse effect on my credit file since May 2018, I appreciate these are not your concern. However, writing to me at an incorrect address from November 2017 through to May 2018 (despite the DVLA holding my correct address), providing these details to third parties (which would suggest a GDPR breach) and not notifying me of intended court action of the date of the hearing, means this CCJ needs to be set aside.

This was a clear error, has had a significant financial impact on my ability to obtain credit (resulting in being unable to secure a mortgage) and has led to me paying you in excess of £800 without you advising me of this penalty and judgement. I would ask that you consider the amounts I have paid in previous PCN’s and in total, the facts relating to my address move and not being aware of you taking a legal route to resolve the PCN, and the huge impact this has had on me personally. From May 2018 through to mid 2019, I was unaware that I had even had a CCJ registered against me. I hope that we can agree a settlement on all outstanding penalties, with this CCJ set aside.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,
Jlc
What are you trying to achieve?

If you've had a set aside refused then that's practically the end of the matter. (How long ago was this?)

For a set aside you need two things.
1. Why the claim was ignored (because of wrong address)
2. A reasonable prospect of success

You also need to act promptly upon discovering the CCJ - for which it seems you did?

But the Judge seems to have decided you didn't have a prospect of success?

QUOTE (COD1901 @ Tue, 28 Apr 2020 - 11:27) *
CE have since issued me with 2 more parking tickets. I had written to them last month (will post this most recent correspondence below) offering to pay them, as well as the original ticket which caused the CCJ, on the basis that they remove the CCJ.

Sorry, are these tickets or judgments now?
Umkomaas
My view - others may disagree - is that this is now waaaay beyond the scope of a forum dealing with private parking charges (mainly at the front end). While the root of your problem is that of private parking charges, but it is now much more of a legal matter than a parking matter which needs expert legal advice.

You could engage the services of a solicitor - obviously there's a cost. But maybe your first (free of charge) port of call would be the LegalBeagles forum to see what advice they can offer.
Fluffykins
As above.

As a side note, however, you say you advised the DVLA. Advise what? Change of address for your licence probably. Did you also update the V5C (cars registration document)?

If not, make sure you get that up to date and keep it up to date. More poo is possible if you fail to.
Half_way
Why did CEL issue parking charges to your vehicle?
was this a residential site( ie your place of residence)?

The recent letter you sent will have more than likely also caused you further issues
Quintessentially
QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Tue, 28 Apr 2020 - 12:01) *
My view - others may disagree - is that this is now waaaay beyond the scope of a forum dealing with private parking charges (mainly at the front end). While the root of your problem is that of private parking charges, but it is now much more of a legal matter than a parking matter which needs expert legal advice.

You could engage the services of a solicitor - obviously there's a cost. But maybe your first (free of charge) port of call would be the LegalBeagles forum to see what advice they can offer.


Agree with this alas you’re trying to close cart door after horse has bolted.

Any further correspondence from you to CEL should begin with ‘Without Prejudice’ so that it’s not admissible in court. I hate to put the boot in but you are really making a lot of basic errors here in your desperation to have the CCJ wiped off your file.

I too would recommend a solicitor.

I would also recommend that you send CEL a subject access request and ask them to provide you with a summary of all parking charges issued against you, the status of them and all supporting evidence. Do this before parting with any more cash because these people are parasites and would bleed you dry.

Parking operators run a tight profit margin and CEL likely are not set up to address these unique legal issues. They literally pass their parking claims like a shopping list to advocates a day or two before trial. Any residual matters are dealt with by the operator’s administration assistants who couldn’t tell their arse from their elbows. So save your breath and get a decent lawyer. I can recommend one if you PM me.

thevaliant
QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Tue, 28 Apr 2020 - 12:01) *
My view - others may disagree - is that this is now waaaay beyond the scope of a forum dealing with private parking charges (mainly at the front end). While the root of your problem is that of private parking charges, but it is now much more of a legal matter than a parking matter which needs expert legal advice.

You could engage the services of a solicitor - obviously there's a cost. But maybe your first (free of charge) port of call would be the LegalBeagles forum to see what advice they can offer.


I'd agree. OP has gone well past the point of this being a parking matter. And that last letter is absolutely dreadful. I only skimmed it, but it appears OP is practically agreeing to all charges just to get the CCJ removed.

If this is a residential parking situation, and its your own lease (not as a tenant, but as a long leaseholder) you (OP) may have even gone as far as effectively varying your own lease by paying all these charges.

OP is in a mess. And needs proper legal advice on where to go from here. And I don't think even a high street firm would do either. You'd need a specialist in private parking law and debt payment and possibly leasehold law, depending on how all these charges arose.

If you really did pay over £1,000 for tickets, assuming you took the first discount, you are looking at least 17 or so agreed charges with CEL. That's really, really, really bad because of the precedent it sets you.
COD1901
Thank you for the responses and particularly the advice on next steps (contact a solicitor!).

To answer some of the questions - though I don't think it'll change the course of action you guys are generally advising - I want the CCJ removed if that wasn't clear. The tickets relate to overstaying in a free to park retail park. I had 2 further PCN's (not judgements).

I very much appreciate that I'm in a mess - being declined on a mortgage makes that point clearer than any condescending comment telling me all the mistakes I made biggrin.gif - and that's why I came here. I'm clearly not an expert on parking tickets, and have tried to follow the steps which seemed common sense - write to the company and then the N244 form to have the CCJ removed. I now realise I have made a number of mistakes, but perhaps naively, don't understand how a CCJ can be logged against me without prior notice, with the incorrect address being used, for a parking ticket in a free KFC car park. It is pretty incredible that a £60 parking ticket can have such a huge impact on someone's life.

I will PM you separately re: solicitor you can recommend Quintessentially. Thank you again for the advice and feedback!
Jlc
QUOTE (COD1901 @ Wed, 29 Apr 2020 - 12:11) *
It is pretty incredible that a £60 parking ticket can have such a huge impact on someone's life.

Yes, this is sadly true - try your local MP too.

QUOTE (COD1901 @ Wed, 29 Apr 2020 - 12:11) *
I will PM you separately re: solicitor you can recommend Quintessentially. Thank you again for the advice and feedback!

I have a potential contact too.

QUOTE (COD1901 @ Wed, 29 Apr 2020 - 12:11) *
don't understand how a CCJ can be logged against me without prior notice, with the incorrect address being used, for a parking ticket in a free KFC car park.

The court process allows for 'default judgments' as you've discovered. There are potentially angles where the parking company did not take reasonable steps to confirm the address was correct before issuing a claim.

It may be a 'free' car park but the Supreme Court decided the charges were enforceable.

QUOTE (COD1901 @ Wed, 29 Apr 2020 - 12:11) *
I had 2 further PCN's (not judgements).

Ok, what stage are you at with these?
The Rookie
QUOTE (COD1901 @ Wed, 29 Apr 2020 - 12:11) *
don't understand how a CCJ can be logged against me without prior notice, with the incorrect address being used

But the correct address was used. The one you had your car registered at.

You would have been sent a letter before claim, a county court claim (from the courts) an a judgement notice with a date by which to pay.

If not replying was to somehow stop the process,everyone could get around their liabilities (noting you have now accepted it was a genuine liability by paying) by not replying - so what else where they meant to do?

As you accept, you made a lot of mistakes - starting by repeatedly trespassing on someone elses land, each was small on its own, but adding up to a big problem.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Quintessentially @ Tue, 28 Apr 2020 - 23:49) *
Any further correspondence from you to CEL should begin with ‘Without Prejudice’ so that it’s not admissible in court.

You do know that writing “without prejudice” doesn’t magically render a document inadmissible, as much as forgetting to write it doesn’t nullify the without prejudice rule, right?
Quintessentially
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 1 May 2020 - 23:57) *
QUOTE (Quintessentially @ Tue, 28 Apr 2020 - 23:49) *
Any further correspondence from you to CEL should begin with ‘Without Prejudice’ so that it’s not admissible in court.

You do know that writing “without prejudice” doesn’t magically render a document inadmissible, as much as forgetting to write it doesn’t nullify the without prejudice rule, right?


Huh?

I was referring to ongoing correspondence. I didn’t say it would bring all documents within the ambit of the privileges offered by the without prejudice principle.

It’s well established principle that correspondence caveated with WP cannot be offered as evidence of admission especially where a party is trying to settle the dispute, which is exactly what this fella is trying to do. Alas he’s tying himself in all sorts of knots in doing so.

Parking Operators scan and file these correspondences, and in turn offer them as evidence. Common practice really.

Whether the WP principle serves its purpose or not, it is better to have it than not.

southpaw82
QUOTE (Quintessentially @ Sat, 2 May 2020 - 01:30) *
It’s well established principle that correspondence caveated with WP cannot be offered as evidence of admission especially where a party is trying to settle the dispute

If he’s not trying to settle it WP doesn’t apply, regardless of what’s written on there. Each piece of correspondence should be considered. No “especially” about it.
Quintessentially
He IS trying to settle with best intentions hence the original advice.

As I said, better to caveat correspondence with WP than not. The court will decide the substance of it.

Quite clear you are intent on splitting hairs and looking for an argument where one doesn’t exist.
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