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Neil B
I'm unsure why there's no thread on the virus yet.

Perhaps everyone is sick of the news.
Driving related? Yep because you won't be.

London, at least will be locked down from Friday midnight. It will be announced at tomorrow's news briefing.

Quite what that means I'm unsure but some elements of the Bill about to be 'nodded' through parliament are
potentially disturbing.

I had earlier wondered if they should seal off the city? Easier than you might think imho

The army are already here and more are waiting just outside the M25 I hear.
Convoys were reportedly leaving Northern barracks earlier today.

I've some thoughts on what has led to this but I'll leave it to others first.
Just one to start; behaviour of the public has been appallingly careless.
A relative, 70 miles out said people see nothing happening so assume nothing. But that's how it's been in London,
you saw nothing, unless you were directly involved. 'Happening' it has been. It's coming to you too.
Mortimer
Yup! I work SW London, near Kingston-upon-Thames. I have told my line manager I will be working from home from Friday onwards.
If anything requires me to be at the office it will require careful planning for me to even consider it, because I have a vulnerable person living in my home and cannot afford to bring something nasty home.
TMC Towcester
This is the flamepit..........

Shirkers' charter IMO. Discuss.
Fredd
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 01:01) *
The army are already here and more are waiting just outside the M25 I hear.
Convoys were reportedly leaving Northern barracks earlier today.

Yes. and 28 Days Later was a documentary.

This is what happens when you rely on Facebook for your news and leave your brain in neutral. And regurgitating half-arsed rumours isn't helpful in this situation, either.
cp8759
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 01:01) *
London, at least will be locked down from Friday midnight. It will be announced at tomorrow's news briefing.

If by lockdown you mean closing bars, pubs, restaurants and over venue, frankly it's about time. The chances of having an actual curfew where anyone seen on the streets after dark risks arrest, well see Fredd's comment. There's an argument to be made that it's a good opportunity for pleasure driving: empty roads, you can to sit in a self-isolated metal bubble...
The Slithy Tove
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 09:44) *
The chances of having an actual curfew where anyone seen on the streets after dark risks arrest, well see Fredd's comment.

Not quite a complete curfew, but it's happening to an extent in France and Italy. Who'd have thought such countries would implement such stringent restrictions on people, but they have. But simply closing all bars, restaurants and other leisure activities will curb a huge amount of discretionary travel.
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 09:44) *
There's an argument to be made that it's a good opportunity for pleasure driving: empty roads, you can to sit in a self-isolated metal bubble...
Might just drive round and round the M25 … because I can.
mickR
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 10:40) *
Might just drive round and round the M25 … because I can.


Untill the fuel runs out with panic buying. Already started here after some **** posted on Falsebook that the army were going to man petrol pumps to ration fuel. They were queing at 6am. Fu@kwits!!
Lodesman
I was hoping we would avoid talk about. Covid-19 on here but no, here we go again !!

By publicising and giving space to the Facebook comment you are spreading the same garbage on here whether you like it or not.

Let’s use our heads for goodness sake.
mickR
QUOTE (Lodesman @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 11:03) *
I was hoping we would avoid talk about. Covid-19 on here but no, here we go again !!

By publicising and giving space to the Facebook comment you are spreading the same garbage on here whether you like it or not.

Let’s use our heads for goodness sake.


Well it will affect everyone you cant pretend its not happening by not talking about it.
I noticed you joined in tho.

I assumed people on here were intelligent enough to make their own minds up about a comment without speading it elsewhere.
cp8759
QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 10:50) *
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 10:40) *
Might just drive round and round the M25 … because I can.


Untill the fuel runs out with panic buying. Already started here after some **** posted on Falsebook that the army were going to man petrol pumps to ration fuel. They were queing at 6am. Fu@kwits!!

Somehow I don't see the LPG pumps running out biggrin.gif
666
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 01:01) *
London, at least will be locked down from Friday midnight. It will be announced at tomorrow's news briefing.

Sadiq Khan has just categorically refuted this. Make of that what you will.

The army are already here and more are waiting just outside the M25 I hear.

The army are indeed in London, and also just outside of the M25. Perfectly normal.

cp8759
QUOTE (666 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 12:20) *
The army are already here and more are waiting just outside the M25 I hear.

The army are indeed in London, and also just outside of the M25. Perfectly normal.

Indeed the army is always inside the M25, examples here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5049209,-...1000!8i5500 here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5013817,-...6080!8i3040 and here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5083272,-...7346!8i3648
Fredd
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 11:45) *
Somehow I don't see the LPG pumps running out biggrin.gif

You wait until my Facebook rumour about LPG being more effective than hand sanitiser goes viral. biggrin.gif
The Rookie
I'd heard that inhaling vaporising LPG was a cure for COVID-19 but only for smokers..........
cp8759
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 13:32) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 11:45) *
Somehow I don't see the LPG pumps running out biggrin.gif

You wait until my Facebook rumour about LPG being more effective than hand sanitiser goes viral. biggrin.gif

Well look if that could lead to a culling of idiots, I'd be all for it. Alas, you can't get LPG out of an LPG pump if it's not hooked up to a car or tank as there's a one-way valve on the end of the hose, it's not like a petrol pump where you could decant it into an open container.
Fredd
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 14:05) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 13:32) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 11:45) *
Somehow I don't see the LPG pumps running out biggrin.gif

You wait until my Facebook rumour about LPG being more effective than hand sanitiser goes viral. biggrin.gif

Well look if that could lead to a culling of idiots, I'd be all for it. Alas, you can't get LPG out of an LPG pump if it's not hooked up to a car or tank as there's a one-way valve on the end of the hose, it's not like a petrol pump where you could decant it into an open container.

I'm not sure one should ever underestimate human stupidity.
The Rookie
The car in this video was LPG fuelled, it was hard to get in the local area, so the owner made an adaptor to fill it with CNG from a CNG dispensor.

Of course CNG is stored at up to 200bar, while an LPG tank is only designed to maintain circa 12 bar to suppress the boiling. The results were predictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Eh5Mi_83c
AscotGuy
Shutdown, yes
Lockdown, no

For all the people that couldn't follow simple advice to stay away from crowds.
essexdriver
What needs mentioning is the average death toll from seasonal flu over the last 5 years is 17,000 (Public Health England). In the 2014/15 season there were 28,300 deaths without mentioning all those that simply recovered at home after a mild dose. I can't recall toilet paper being fought over then.....
The Rookie
Not that ‘like the flu’ cra@p again?

Seriously, have you looked at the numbers and thus understand why that comparison is hogwash?

That said I agree about loo rolls, I see people buying 3 months worth, well if you haven’t got three months worth of food, you don’t need three months worth of loo roll.

Also Rupert Murdoch has a solution, you can make good use of the Sun or Times newspapers, although they only work for right wing arses, apparently left wingers react negatively to the papers.

Neil B
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 08:56) *
Yes. and 28 Days Later was a documentary.

This is what happens when you rely on Facebook for your news and leave your brain in neutral. And regurgitating half-arsed rumours isn't helpful in this situation, either.

I don't and hadn't. It came from two different sources I trust and made sense.
Yes it was repeated by various people around social media but no, I don't take those as read.

Some related stories appeared in mainstream press shortly after I posted.
Now, how many of those had any foundation I don't know as I've only just woken up (unrelated health issue).

They were, that -
Around 40 tube and underground stations would be closed from today?
The army would be assisting the NHS and emergency services?
They would set up temporary hospitals in currently empty hotels?

Has any of that happened?

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 09:44) *
The chances of having an actual curfew where anyone seen on the streets after dark risks arrest, well see Fredd's comment.

I haven't suggested it and don't think we have the manpower.
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 09:44) *
If by lockdown you mean closing bars, pubs, restaurants and over venue, frankly it's about time.

Yes and quite disappointed it hasn't happened

QUOTE (Lodesman @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 11:03) *
By publicising and giving space to the Facebook comment you are spreading the same garbage on here whether you like it or not.

What FB comment? There were lots but none were my source.
It was a particular keyworker who claimed to have been briefed so it made sense at the time. Clearly such info gets equally
garbled, away from social media, even if it starts as actually having some foundation.
essexdriver
No, "not like the flu" cr@ap again. I'm not belittling the impact Covid 19 will have here but I understand China has recorded 3,245 deaths so far and it seems the numbers of "home grown" infections are falling. It is a matter of perspective.

Someone in a shop today told me that within weeks 25,000 will be dying per week, this is the sort of wild stuff that is out there driving queues outside supermarkets at 6am.
Fredd
QUOTE (essexdriver @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 17:41) *
What needs mentioning is the average death toll from seasonal flu over the last 5 years is 17,000 (Public Health England). In the 2014/15 season there were 28,300 deaths without mentioning all those that simply recovered at home after a mild dose.

If we did nothing, and in the absence of any natural immunity or a vaccine, then based on the scientific estimates informed by China's experience:

UK population of 68m
x Infection rate of something like 50-70%
x Average mortality rate of 1-2%
= 340,000 deaths (using the lower estimates)

So unless we delay this long enough to in the short term develop more effective treatments (and avoid the health system being overwhelmed), and ultimately develop vaccines, it will be nothing like seasonal flu.
Atomic Tomato
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 01:01) *
London, at least will be locked down from Friday midnight. It will be announced at tomorrow's news briefing.

Quite what that means I'm unsure but some elements of the Bill about to be 'nodded' through parliament are
potentially disturbing.

I had earlier wondered if they should seal off the city? Easier than you might think imho

The army are already here and more are waiting just outside the M25 I hear.
Convoys were reportedly leaving Northern barracks earlier today.


This has so many parallels to John Christopher's book "The Death of Grass". A bit dated but still a good read.

Chinese virus
Apathy
London sealed off

Published in 1956

essexdriver
Exactly, the "worst case scenario" from the NHS was 250,000 deaths if nothing was done and thats where 25,000 deaths a week through a 10 week infection period probably comes from, but something is being done and with sensible precautions those numbers will not happen. One shouldn't be complacent at all and that wasn't my point.

And I've just read on the BBC that those tanks heading for London were driving on the right hand side of the road and were pictured in the Ukraine a few days ago....
Neil B
QUOTE (essexdriver @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:43) *
And I've just read on the BBC that those tanks heading for London were driving on the right hand side of the road and were pictured in the Ukraine a few days ago....

I hadn't seen any picture, neither did I mention 'tanks'.

But I can reliably tell you that I've just seen the aircraft carrier QE1 negotiating Bow Locks in an effort to stamp out panic buying in the
nearby Tesco.
666
QUOTE (essexdriver @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 18:43) *
And I've just read on the BBC that those tanks heading for London were driving on the right hand side of the road and were pictured in the Ukraine a few days ago....

And the drivers had snow on their boots...
southpaw82
Did we miss something at the Fulda Gap?
Fredd
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 19:48) *
Did we miss something at the Fulda Gap?

That'll probably go way over the head of anyone under the age of 40, for whom the Cold War is ancient history. biggrin.gif
speedfighter23
my pub and nightclub are both open this weekend, obviously much less traffic on the roads though so driving is actually much more relaxxing. supermarkets have food.

my life hasn't changed much at all, i always worked from home anyway.

only issue is no one wants to have face to face meetings, so mostly on the phone!
mickR
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 20:04) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 19:48) *
Did we miss something at the Fulda Gap?

That'll probably go way over the head of anyone under the age of 40, for whom the Cold War is ancient history. biggrin.gif


I thought she was a 70s porn star rolleyes.gif
cp8759
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 22:34) *
only issue is no one wants to have face to face meetings, so mostly on the phone!

I've worked from home for years, though not going to the office at all, ever is a bit odd. Don't you have Skype? Makes remote meetings far more effective in my experience.
Incandescent
Ration books ? Identity cards ?
Nobody's mentioned these yet.
When I was very young I had a ration card, although I didn't know it at the time, and in the 70s I remember going to the Post Office with my motorbike V5 to get issued with petrol coupons. I had those coupons in my wallet for years, but petrol rationing was never implemented.
Ocelot
I'm trying to use Citrix to log on to work. Normally it's fine but after 9am it slows down so much I can hardly do anything.
cp8759
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 11:03) *
I'm trying to use Citrix to log on to work. Normally it's fine but after 9am it slows down so much I can hardly do anything.

Don't you get a company laptop?
The Rookie
For those not familiar, Microsoft teams is a great way of keeping teamwork going from varied locations.
Lodesman
QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 11:09) *
I assumed people on here were intelligent enough to make their own minds up about a comment without speading it elsewhere.


Have you read some of the posts on here ?
wink.gif
GAZ237
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Thu, 19 Mar 2020 - 22:34) *
my pub and nightclub are both open this weekend, obviously much less traffic on the roads though so driving is actually much more relaxxing. supermarkets have food. my life hasn't changed much at all, i always worked from home anyway. only issue is no one wants to have face to face meetings, so mostly on the phone!





Thankfully the government has put a stop to companies like yours, who were quite happy to carry on fiddling as Rome burns.




Your life has changed now. Welcome to the club.




mickR
I doubt the pub and club are actually his as he works from home.
spanner345
Mrs spanner has been panic buying for the lockdown. She found cheap daffodils and bought 7 bunches.
Ocelot
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 11:26) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 11:03) *
I'm trying to use Citrix to log on to work. Normally it's fine but after 9am it slows down so much I can hardly do anything.

Don't you get a company laptop?


No a company desktop so have to use my own pc.
mickR
Going back to op, .... so lock down didnt actually happen then. Only social gathering venues.

So the greedy, the uncaring, the selfish inconsiderate c@@ts are still spreading it about.
Neil B
QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 21 Mar 2020 - 12:26) *
Going back to op, .... so lock down didnt actually happen then. Only social gathering venues.

So the greedy, the uncaring, the selfish inconsiderate c@@ts are still spreading it about.

Indeed. I think I've said I'm suitably embarrassed about being so daft to have believed it.

I think, perhaps, I wanted it to be true -- in some ways if not others.

London does now seem to be quietening down a bit. Last week was like nothing was going on at all.
DancingDad
I note that TFL are suspending the ULEZ and Congestion Charges from Monday 23rd.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-rel...ritical-workers
mickR
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 21 Mar 2020 - 13:42) *
London does now seem to be quietening down a bit. Last week was like nothing was going on at all.


You obviously havent seen video going around of newham high street then. I cant post it as i dont know how to with commentry muted which some would find offensive blush.gif
Neil B
Overall a bit quieter I think though.

Still a lot blaise.
The Govt are not helping. Di anyone else think the briefing today was a joke?

I coulddn't help thinking of Sgt Wilson in Dad's Army,
"would you mind awfully awfully --- not being dickheads. Now come along there chaps"
The Slithy Tove
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 22 Mar 2020 - 00:08) *
Overall a bit quieter I think though.
The towns and cities may be quieter, but the countryside was heaving yesterday, by all accounts. Local beauty spots and beaches had full car parks. Not sure what the risks are with people outdoors and more spaced out, but it wasn't really "social distancing". The National Trust have, in response, closed all their parks now. I hope this doesn't force a really brutal lock-down.
Fredd
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sun, 22 Mar 2020 - 08:02) *
Not sure what the risks are with people outdoors and more spaced out, but it wasn't really "social distancing". The National Trust have, in response, closed all their parks now. I hope this doesn't force a really brutal lock-down.

The problem is that there's no way people are going to stay locked up indoors for the weeks and months that some form of social distancing is going to be necessary. From what's known about this virus so far briefly passing other people outdoors apparently doesn't pose a significant risk of infection, and it must be a hell of a lot safer than other things we're going to have to continue doing, like cramming into a supermarket every few days. Closing low risk areas like parks isn't going to help at all if it just makes other areas more crowded.

Unless there's very rapid progress with identifying effective drugs, I think that at some point there's going to have to be a serious discussion about the trade off between health (mental as well as physical) and economic risks, and what corresponding levels of deaths will be tolerable.
Incandescent
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 22 Mar 2020 - 10:07) *
Unless there's very rapid progress with identifying effective drugs, I think that at some point there's going to have to be a serious discussion about the trade off between health (mental as well as physical) and economic risks, and what corresponding levels of deaths will be tolerable.

My sentiments entirely, and I'm 74 !! During the Blitz in London in 1940/41 life went on; it had to !
mickR
@ fredd Absolutely!

Also it doesnt help that there are so many "experts" popping up giving conflicting advice.
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