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Fight Against ANPR Cameras
What is the state of play with ANPR camera cars?
I thought they had been outlawed but I have seen some on the roads, not in action just driving through
.
southpaw82
Why would they have been outlawed?
cp8759
QUOTE (Fight Against ANPR Cameras @ Mon, 16 Mar 2020 - 18:34) *
What is the state of play with ANPR camera cars?
I thought they had been outlawed but I have seen some on the roads, not in action just driving through
.

What law am I breaking if I put an ANPR camera in my car?
Fight Against ANPR Cameras
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 16 Mar 2020 - 19:24) *
Why would they have been outlawed?


So councils don't issue tickets like confetti
.
Fredd
QUOTE (Fight Against ANPR Cameras @ Mon, 16 Mar 2020 - 22:37) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 16 Mar 2020 - 19:24) *
Why would they have been outlawed?


So councils don't issue tickets like confetti
.

Quite why it's considered sneaky of councils to detect genuine parking contraventions using cameras I've never really understood. However in a burst of populism a provision was enacted in the Deregulation Act 2015 which prevents councils from enforcing on-street parking restrictions solely by use of cameras - they have to physically attach a ticket to the vehicle (excepting drive-off situations and the like). They're still permitted to use the technology in enforcing other restrictions.
Slapdash
I don't think it is particularly sneaky. But I don't think its entirely reasonable.

With exemptions for loading, alighting/boarding, disabled there would be loads of spurious tickets issued and it is unreasonable to force people to spend time and money explaining the claiming of the exmption.

I guess most loading alighting and boarding could probably discerned from review of the footage by a human. But unlikely to catch legitimate blue badge use.
The Rookie
Well enforcement using ANPR was prohibited in most of those cases as Fredd told you.

In fact the vast majority of use now for parking is where any form of stopping is prohibited, so there are very few exemptions that could apply.
cp8759
Here's one example: https://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/13436...-outlawed-them/

But the opening post was mis-stated, the cars are not illegal, rather their use is simply limited.
mickR
QUOTE (Slapdash @ Tue, 17 Mar 2020 - 08:55) *
I don't think it is particularly sneaky. But I don't think its entirely reasonable.

With exemptions for loading, alighting/boarding, disabled there would be loads of spurious tickets issued and it is unreasonable to force people to spend time and money explaining the claiming of the exmption.

I guess most loading alighting and boarding could probably discerned from review of the footage by a human. But unlikely to catch legitimate blue badge use.


All of this !
Not sneeky but highly questionable. Rampant indiscriminate issue of tickets making legally parked people spend time, effort and undergo stress to defend something that never should have been allowed in the first instance. Quite rightly limited.
southpaw82
I thought we were talking about ANPR in police cars.
mickR
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 17 Mar 2020 - 19:22) *
I thought we were talking about ANPR in police cars.


huh.gif
cp8759
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 17 Mar 2020 - 19:22) *
I thought we were talking about ANPR in police cars.

I thought we were talking about ANPR in cars, from the opening post that's what it sounded like.
mickR
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 17 Mar 2020 - 20:02) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 17 Mar 2020 - 19:22) *
I thought we were talking about ANPR in police cars.

I thought we were talking about ANPR in cars, from the opening post that's what it sounded like.


I thought we were talking about council carmera cars.
Fredd
It's not surprising there's so much confusion, since "ANPR camera car" is meaningless. ANPR is just a technology, which can be used with all kinds of imaging systems.
The Rookie
Indeed, I recall watching a docusoap with a bailiff where they used ANPR to flag up cars connected with unpaid council PCNs.
baroudeur
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 08:45) *
Indeed, I recall watching a docusoap with a bailiff where they used ANPR to flag up cars connected with unpaid council PCNs.


So they can also clamp the vehicle.

Isn't Council camera van use restricted to yellow-lined bus stops and school zig-zags?

My local council reduces CO2 emissions and salary bill by placing fixed cameras at these locations.
cp8759
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 12:25) *
Isn't Council camera van use restricted to yellow-lined bus stops and school zig-zags?

No, it's just that the council's powers to issue PCNs are limited to those scenarios (plus red roues). Once the bailiffs are involved, a PCN has already been issued so the restriction is irrelevant.
roythebus
Maybe the oddest ANPR I've come across recently was this:

The M20, closed form j11 to J10 for planned roadworks at night. the signposted diversion takes the drivers back along the M20 to Dover and up the A2 to London and the M25, a lengthy diversion of over 40 miles. The other diversion is north along Stone Street, a narrow B road with a very steep hill with S bends, towards Canterbury. the logical direct diversion is along the A20 which runs parallel to the M20.

However, the residents of Sellindge Village on the A20 complain about the lorries "thundering through" their village all night, the amount of collisions caused by the road being too narrow to pass 2 lorries (after they campaigned to have the road narrowed to slow lorries down)..

So the contractor via Highways England place a camera van bristling with cameras at the 2nd roundabout along the A20 to try to deter lorries from using the A20. This has caused several near-misses as lorry drivers get confused by the conflicting diversion signs, with some turning back when theys ee the camera van. The van blocks half the road and is in itself a danger.

I recently stopped to chat to the man in the van and he said he was there on the instructions of HE. what happened to the pictures of lorries? they get reported. To whom? Ermm. what action would be taken, there's no traffic order banning lorries form using the road? Well, they'd get reported...Why on earth are you then sitting there with cameras that are totally useless? Ermmm..Is it not environmentally unfriendly to make hundreds of lorries make a 50 mile detour? Ermmm.

For something that's supposed to be in the interests of road safety, it is having completely the opposite effect. It's not a police or local authority vehicle. What a waste of time and money. ANPR at its worst.

cp8759
Sounds like an interesting topic for an FOI query. If you can provide specifics (date and location where this van was) I'll look into it.
The Rookie
What is the point of M'ways having to have a suitable replacement (in the event of a closure) A-road, if you then make the A-road unusable?

Can you imagine the chaos when it gets closed due to an incident!
cp8759
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 12:16) *
What is the point of M'ways having to have a suitable replacement (in the event of a closure) A-road

I've not heard of that before? And who decides if the replacement A road is "suitable"?
baroudeur
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 23:24) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 12:25) *
Isn't Council camera van use restricted to yellow-lined bus stops and school zig-zags?

No, it's just that the council's powers to issue PCNs are limited to those scenarios (plus red roues). Once the bailiffs are involved, a PCN has already been issued so the restriction is irrelevant.


rolleyes.gif

I assumed that 'to issue PCNs' would be taken for granted by the cognoscenti.
cp8759
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:33) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 23:24) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 12:25) *
Isn't Council camera van use restricted to yellow-lined bus stops and school zig-zags?

No, it's just that the council's powers to issue PCNs are limited to those scenarios (plus red roues). Once the bailiffs are involved, a PCN has already been issued so the restriction is irrelevant.


rolleyes.gif

I assumed that 'to issue PCNs' would be taken for granted by the cognoscenti.

The question posed was whether bailiffs could use ANPR vans to enforce against vehicles where a PCN had already been issued, so the qualification was needed.
baroudeur
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:47) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:33) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 23:24) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 12:25) *
Isn't Council camera van use restricted to yellow-lined bus stops and school zig-zags?

No, it's just that the council's powers to issue PCNs are limited to those scenarios (plus red roues). Once the bailiffs are involved, a PCN has already been issued so the restriction is irrelevant.


rolleyes.gif

I assumed that 'to issue PCNs' would be taken for granted by the cognoscenti.

The question posed was whether bailiffs could use ANPR vans to enforce against vehicles where a PCN had already been issued, so the qualification was needed.


Sorry, but my question never mentioned bailiffs. CP8759 pointed to the lack of "to issue PCNs" in my post and then referred to bailiffs' powers.
cp8759
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 23 Mar 2020 - 12:00) *
Sorry, but my question never mentioned bailiffs. CP8759 pointed to the lack of "to issue PCNs" in my post and then referred to bailiffs' powers.

It did, who else would the "they" in bold be?

QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 12:25) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 18 Mar 2020 - 08:45) *
Indeed, I recall watching a docusoap with a bailiff where they used ANPR to flag up cars connected with unpaid council PCNs.


So they can also clamp the vehicle.

Isn't Council camera van use restricted to yellow-lined bus stops and school zig-zags?

The Rookie
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 13:23) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Mar 2020 - 12:16) *
What is the point of M'ways having to have a suitable replacement (in the event of a closure) A-road

I've not heard of that before? And who decides if the replacement A road is "suitable"?

It was always a principle (although looking online I'm not sure if it still is) that an Mway must have a suitable A-road route as a backup.
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