Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: PCN in Camden
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
AF3313
Hi,

I received a PCN for parking a van I rented in Camden (https://goo.gl/maps/URfUrhVhpU8jXkxw9) on the 21st February 2020.

I picked up a Van and parked outside my office and paid for parking until 10:30am. I then left the parking spot and didn’t return until after 6pm (I do not have a record of exactly what time), which is when I started unloading the van of its contents into our office and storage room. When I returned I had received a PCN. The vehicle was observed for 18 seconds before the PCN was issued, which leads me to believe the CEO assumed my vehicle had been there since the original parking session ended, otherwise the observation time should have been to the order of three minutes (code 11) as stated in Camden’s Parking Operations Enforcement Protocol. Given I was carrying large amount of equipment into the office, it is unreasonable to think I could have made it back within 18 seconds.

I have attached photos of the PCN (both sides) and all the images taken. It may be worth noting that I have not altered the vehicle images, and the reg. plate is illegible in the images uploaded by the CEO.

https://ibb.co/pPxQTs7
https://ibb.co/Z6GsSB0
https://ibb.co/wRFxxjz
https://ibb.co/pxsnLvH
https://ibb.co/1fm94Nr
https://ibb.co/zGC8xNM
https://ibb.co/cQtgcFS
https://ibb.co/NmdkNjM
https://ibb.co/0JqRXBX
https://ibb.co/64R0tVh

Any advice on how to proceed is greatly appreciated, any things I have left out or you need to know from me, please ask.
stamfordman
You have nailed the mistake - it should have been a code 11 as you say. Maybe the handheld device picked up the reg from earlier.

Observation time is guidance but loading is an exemption for both code 5 and 11 in Camden so you have two grounds, wrong contravention and the loading exemption.

As this is a hire, you'll want to get this cancelled at informal stage so don't rush anything off - let's get the wording right here first.
AF3313
Thank you for your feedback.

I have drafted a informal challenge, and it would be great if I could get some feedback. This is the first time I have had to write such a letter, and I've tried to look for examples on this forum, so please forgive me if its off the mark.

Thanks in advance for your help.

---

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing this letter of appeal with regards to PCN No. CUxxxxxxxx and Reg No. xxxx xxx.

I wish to appeal this PCN on two grounds: wrong contravention and load exemption.

The PCN received was for an alleged Code 5 contravention: Parked after the expiry of paid for time. While it is true that the commercial vehicle used to transport equipment was parked in this location from 08:13 to 10:30, between the end of the paid for time and the time of the alleged contravention, the commercial vehicle was not in this location (It is reasonable to believe that if the vehicle had been there continuously for 8 hours, it would have received a PCN earlier). When I returned to the paid for bay, a new parking session commenced, therefore the assertion that a Code 5 contravention has taken place is incorrect. Given a new parking session had commenced, in lieu of a valid exemption, the correct contravention was a Code 11: parked without payment of the parking charge. Based on this error alone, the PCN should be cancelled, as a Code 5 contravention has not taken place.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the commercial vehicle was parked in a paid for bay for the purpose of unloading the vehicle’s contents into our adjacent office and storage room. The paid for bay was the preferable location to stop (in the road being the other option) as to not block traffic on a busy street. Given the number of bays available, and proximity to the end of the restricted time, this was the safest and least impactful place to unload the vehicle from. As loading/unloading is an exemption under both Code 5 and Code 11 contraventions, and as such, this PCN should be cancelled.

Yours Faithfully,
AF3313
PASTMYBEST
The big issue here is that barring a very convincing informal challenge Camden will reject and a NTO will be sent to the hire co, They may depending on the agreement you have with them pay the PCN and charge your CC add in an admin fee on top or follow the procedure and have the PCN transferred to your name this will still collect you an admin charge

So first thing check with Avis what they will do, tell them that you want to fight the PCN and if they receive a NTO they should make representations to the council to the effect that they are a hire company check what the admin fee is. Is it worth fighting ?

Then your challenge if going that route should concentrate on the loading Tell them what you were unloading with some photos if possible, tell them how far from the van you had to carry these goods get all the facts of what you did in at this first hurdle.
AF3313
Thanks for you reply. I’ll have to look into the admin fees for Avis, I fear they will make it not worth fighting.

If I send an informal challenge and it is rejected, will an NTO be sent immediately, or will I have an opportunity to pay after?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (AF3313 @ Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 21:39) *
Thanks for you reply. I’ll have to look into the admin fees for Avis, I fear they will make it not worth fighting.

If I send an informal challenge and it is rejected, will an NTO be sent immediately, or will I have an opportunity to pay after?


usually they will respond and if it is a rejection they would re offer the discount, but they are not obliged to, indeed they do not have to respond, but may serve a NTO on the RK after 28 days beginning with the date of service of the PCN, regardless
stamfordman
If you can, get a statement from a manager on headed paper on the unloading and need to hire the van.

I would be nice and polite and say to Camden that it is a hire vehicle and you would very much hope they would cancel without the NTO going to the hire firm.

but as PMB says it means getting evidence they should accept.

Also, who is on the hook for the PCN - was the van rented by your company?
AF3313
Just wanted to provide an update on the status of this PCN.

In the end, I submit the informal challenge I wrote above, which was subsequently accepted. The PCN was cancelled on the ground of being the wrong contravention code.

Just want to thank those who provided some advice and this forum in general for having lots of info available.

Incandescent
Well done, and thanks for letting us know the outcome.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.