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Barking Mad
Hi chaps,


I saked this question deep within another thread and it's not been answered. So here, I'm specifically going to clarify and isolate my question.

A car has been clamped, apparently legally according to the land owner's agent, and they say they're holding it (clamped) under antiquated "Distress Damage Pheasant" legislation wanting money to unclamp the car from being held clamped on the private property where it was left parked.

Without damaging the clamp in any way but being unable to completely remove it from the car, the car is moved by its owner (or the driver on that day) very slowly off of the private land and back onto the public highway.

The clamp is still attached to the car but now the car is on the public highway and no longer on the land in question.

At this point
  • Does the owner / driver / keeper of the car have the right to insist the clamp is taken off without payment?
  • If the clamp is not then removed by the clamper (once they are {made} aware the vehicle is no longer 'on their land'), would they be guilty of an offence of some description, if so, what?
  • If the clamp is not then removed by the clamper (once they are {made} aware the vehicle is no longer 'on their land'), would it still be an act of criminal damage to remove the clamp by breaking it if necessary?
Teufel
private clamping on private land is legal only if

effective and resonable notice given, reasonable charge (150 has been decalred reasonable)
and there is an effective process of payment and release (arthur v anker)

and

the clamper complies with the req of the private securities act 2001


neither of these sem to be fulfilled in this case

thuis you are perfectlyright to remove the clamp - including with
an angle grinder - a reasonable tort in response to their unreasonable tort - self help

equally you can reclaim the money demanded but this will not be a simple process

at least report them to the SIA (a toothless body)
and trading standards and if they are not SIA registered
the police - they may have committed a crime
Barking Mad
QUOTE (Barking Mad @ Thu, 10 Aug 2006 - 10:05) *
Hi chaps,


I saked this question deep within another thread and it's not been answered. So here, I'm specifically going to clarify and isolate my question.

A car has been clamped, apparently legally according to the land owner's agent, and they say they're holding it (clamped) under antiquated "Distress Damage Pheasant" legislation wanting money to unclamp the car from being held clamped on the private property where it was left parked.

Without damaging the clamp in any way but being unable to completely remove it from the car, the car is moved by its owner (or the driver on that day) very slowly off of the private land and back onto the public highway.

The clamp is still attached to the car but now the car is on the public highway and no longer on the land in question.

At this point
  • Does the owner / driver / keeper of the car have the right to insist the clamp is taken off without payment?
  • If the clamp is not then removed by the clamper (once they are {made} aware the vehicle is no longer 'on their land'), would they be guilty of an offence of some description, if so, what?
  • If the clamp is not then removed by the clamper (once they are {made} aware the vehicle is no longer 'on their land'), would it still be an act of criminal damage to remove the clamp by breaking it if necessary?


FWIW, I have proved to myself that moving a clamped car is possible. I have jacked up a car on a trolly-jack and moved it 50 feet to see whether this is possible!

What I am still desparate to discover is If the clamped car can be removed (like so) from the private land and onto the public higway would the clampers then be legally bound to remove the clamp? If they refused would they be guilty of interfering with a motor vehicle on the public highway or something else?

FWIW I am quite prepared to take my own car over to the Marina, leave it in the self same place (for the self same treatment, presumably) but I need to know where I might stand legally - or would this be a test case?
g_attrill
QUOTE (Barking Mad @ Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 17:49) *
If the clamped car can be removed (like so) from the private land and onto the public higway [size=3]would the clampers then be legally bound to remove the clamp?


No. The question is why do you think they would be?

QUOTE (Barking Mad @ Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 17:49) *
If they refused would they be guilty of interfering with a motor vehicle on the public highway or something else?


Nothing that I can think of. Interfering is an offence that only applies if the person is attempting to steal the vehicle or from it.
Barking Mad
QUOTE (g_attrill @ Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 20:54) *
QUOTE (Barking Mad @ Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 17:49) *

If the clamped car can be removed (like so) from the private land and onto the public higway [size=3]would the clampers then be legally bound to remove the clamp?


No. The question is why do you think they would be?



Because the clamped car would no longer be causing them any loss of the enjoyment of their land and because they effectively would knowingly have a clamp affixed to a vehicle on the public highway


QUOTE (g_attrill @ Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 20:54) *
QUOTE (Barking Mad @ Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 17:49) *

If they refused would they be guilty of interfering with a motor vehicle on the public highway or something else?


Nothing that I can think of. Interfering is an offence that only applies if the person is attempting to steal the vehicle or from it.


Are clampers who act on private land authorised to clamp vehicles which are on the public highway?

OK Let me ask another question: I wantonly and viciously parked my car with one of its back wheels on a white line delimiting 2 bays at a Netto car park around a month ago. Can they come and clamp my car outside my house now? Is is parked on the public highway. If not WHY NOT ??????
andy_foster
Common sense suggests that there is a huge difference between lawfully clamping a vehicle on private land (regardless of whether the owner subsequently moves the vehicle onto the public highway) and clamping a vehicle which is no longer on private land which the clampers have authority to clamp on.

A more detailed response would require lengthy research into case law which, on the face of it at least, the question does not merit.
Teufel
a private person cannot clamp your vehicle except as self
help when it is on their own land

clamping it on your land or the public highway would
not be justified as self help as they are not suffering a loss at the time
it would be a tort to goods as well as possibly a criminal offence
in interefering with a vehicle

clampers authorised by legislation or court can clamp on the public
highway but not private land
Barking Mad
Andy, if I knew where to look, I'd do the research myself. The truth is, I don't know where to look.

That said, for the cost of a trolly-jack to be kept in the car, if *I* get clamped somewhere like that in future, I will jack the car up and drag it off of the private land and onto the highway. Then I will instruct the clampers to de-clamp it, following which I will ring the police to advise them there is likely to be a breach of the peace if they don't turn up soon.

Then in the absence of any other forthcoming suggestion from here, I'll ask them (the police) what offence(s) will have been committed by whom (if any).

If the clamper then still subsequently refuses to remove the clamp, I would rather pay for a low-loader to take my car away clamp attached.

Still, as you say, Andy. The enquiry is frivolous! I got a tremendous kick out of watching a helpless woman having forty quid extorted from her but this almost never happens to anyone, eh??? If there were 3 clampings on private land in England & Wales a year rather than 3 in every major town & city across England & Wales probably every day, I'd agree with you.

And why don't I like 'this form' of car abuse? Well at least with speeding or parking on the highway one does get the benefit of a trial if one pursues matters before the penalty is levied and extracted - seems to me this is punishment without trial, and having seen it with my own eyes, I seek the legal way of "putting it up 'em!" Not just for me but for others too.
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