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TheZZ9
As the title says I have received a NIP five months after the date of the offence. I was driving a work car and the place I work is rather small and disorganised so they may have lost the original NIP or failed to reply for ages so that might explain the delay. No one at work has mentioned this to me but clearly they did finally name me since I got the NIP.

The offence is 37 in a 30.

I believe a case has to be filed at court within six months for a speeding offence, the date of the offence is five months ago and the NIP gives me 28 days to reply, I'm sure you can see where this is heading...

If I reply confirming I was driving and they send me a letter, presumably offering a fixed penalty or a course, and I reply saying I want to contest it it would be well outside the six months. Would they be allowed to prosecute me?
NewJudge
Make sure your reply gets there as late as it is allowed to (get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO). If they are too late to prosecute they may still offer you a Fixed Penalty which you can ignore.
Jlc
Exact dates would be helpful - it could be tight... (But if your 28 days to reply is after the deadline to commence prosecution then it appears you cannot be pursued)
nosferatu1001
My understanding is theyre not that silly, so IF your response is within the 6 months they jut move straight to court - no COFP or court. If however your 28 days to reply means a reply on the last couple days would fall outside of the 6 months, then while you may get a COFP through the post, no prosecution would be possible.
TheZZ9
QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 14:56) *
Exact dates would be helpful - it could be tight... (But if your 28 days to reply is after the deadline to commence prosecution then it appears you cannot be pursued)


The offence was April 1st. The date of the NIP is 4th of this month, so that's five months and a few days. 28 days from that is Oct 2nd. So even if they went to filing a case it would be a day over. If they write to offer a fixed penalty or a course that would then be several weeks more waiting for my response before they could file a case.

Could they "provisionally" file a case before I responded? If they did I could receive a court summons before I'd sent back my response.
NewJudge
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 15:48) *
The offence was April 1st. The date of the NIP is 4th of this month,

Assuming the NIP (or more importantly the accompanying S172 notice requiring the driver's details) was posted on the day it was produced it was deemed served on you on Friday 6th (i.e. today). This means you have until Friday 4th October for your reply to be received. Make sure it gets there on either the 2nd or 3rd of October and you're home and dry.


QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 15:48) *
Could they "provisionally" file a case before I responded? If they did I could receive a court summons before I'd sent back my response.

No. They have no evidence who was driving and so do not know who to prosecute.




TheZZ9
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:08) *
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 15:48) *
The offence was April 1st. The date of the NIP is 4th of this month,

Assuming the NIP (or more importantly the accompanying S172 notice requiring the driver's details) was posted on the day it was produced it was deemed served on you on Friday 6th (i.e. today). This means you have until Friday 4th October for your reply to be received. Make sure it gets there on either the 2nd or 3rd of October and you're home and dry.


QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 15:48) *
Could they "provisionally" file a case before I responded? If they did I could receive a court summons before I'd sent back my response.

No. They have no evidence who was driving and so do not know who to prosecute.


As a layman, not a lawyer, I would say they would have some evidence who was driving because my employer has clearly told them my name. Legally they might not know, or be certain, hence the NIP to me asking for me to name the driver.

As for sending back the 172 I was planning to send it back two days before the deadline, and get a proof of posting from the post office. Then see what they say....
NewJudge
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:18) *
As a layman, not a lawyer, I would say they would have some evidence who was driving because my employer has clearly told them my name. Legally they might not know, or be certain, hence the NIP to me asking for me to name the driver.

It's not evidence. It is an assumption. Unless your employer was in the car with you he or she cannot say you were driving. They can tell the police they had reason to believe that you were (which is what they've done) but that's not the same thing at all.
TheZZ9
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:28) *
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:18) *
As a layman, not a lawyer, I would say they would have some evidence who was driving because my employer has clearly told them my name. Legally they might not know, or be certain, hence the NIP to me asking for me to name the driver.

It's not evidence. It is an assumption. Unless your employer was in the car with you he or she cannot say you were driving. They can tell the police they had reason to believe that you were (which is what they've done) but that's not the same thing at all.


Good to hear. I'll wait to see what they say.

I may well have been speeding, but that long ago I have no chance of remembering what happened or if there were any other factors, let alone if I was actually driving that car. It's a pool car that lots of people use. I can barely remember what I did yesterday let alone five months ago.
southpaw82
Starting a case protectively would be an abuse of process.
NewJudge
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:50) *
I may well have been speeding, but that long ago I have no chance of remembering what happened or if there were any other factors, let alone if I was actually driving that car. It's a pool car that lots of people use. I can barely remember what I did yesterday let alone five months ago.

You need to pay heed to this for the future. It seems you may be fortunate on this occasion because of your employer's tardiness. But you can't generally rely on that. Has your employer simply drawn your name from the hat or do they keep records of who drives their vehicles? If they don't it may help if you do so yourself. If this allegation was not "timed out" you may have found yourself facing a charge when you were not even sure that you were driving. It gets complicated then and is best avoided.
TheZZ9
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:20) *
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:50) *
I may well have been speeding, but that long ago I have no chance of remembering what happened or if there were any other factors, let alone if I was actually driving that car. It's a pool car that lots of people use. I can barely remember what I did yesterday let alone five months ago.

You need to pay heed to this for the future. It seems you may be fortunate on this occasion because of your employer's tardiness. But you can't generally rely on that. Has your employer simply drawn your name from the hat or do they keep records of who drives their vehicles? If they don't it may help if you do so yourself. If this allegation was not "timed out" you may have found yourself facing a charge when you were not even sure that you were driving. It gets complicated then and is best avoided.

They do keep records, but they're filed away. I could ask to see them I suppose, but if they do say I was driving I'd have no way of proving I wasn't. I have no reason to doubt them.
I could take a photo of the car each day I drove it, but if there was a day I didn't have a photo how could I prove I hadn't just forgotten to take a photo that day? Or deleted it myself?

Thinking about it I could let Google track me with my phone, so I'd be able to use that to show if I was in that area on that day. Not sure how long Google keep that data available.
Logician
No need to take photos, just keep your own record of when you drive the car.
Fredd
QUOTE (TheZZ9 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:27) *
Not sure how long Google keep that data available.

A lot longer than 5 months.
Redivi
I've just used it as evidence for an event more than two years ago

If you send the reply on 1st October you know for sure that it won't arrive before the deadline to prosecute

As you say, ask for a certificate of sending and obviously keep a copy
TheZZ9
Update:
I sent the completed form back at 27 days, which was at the start of the month, and hadn't heard from them. So I called them and was told no further action would be taken due to the time.

So looks like I got away with this thanks to my employers cockup. At least I assume that was behind the delay, no one has mentioned anything. No idea if they were fined for failing to reply.

Every speeding ticket I have got in the past, and I average maybe one every six or seven years, I have just accepted as a fair cop and paid the fine and taken the points. So this is a nice bonus.
Ocelot
Sounds like a result.
Jlc
You thought they'd still send a CoFP just in case you'd bite...
TheZZ9
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 20:20) *
You thought they'd still send a CoFP just in case you'd bite...


It wouldn't have surprised me. If I had accepted it and paid the fine that would have been that.

Unlikely to be as lucky again....
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