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Ecko
Hi all,

Just had a PCN through the post from Smart Parking. This is at my office, my normal car was in the garage and is registered with the system, however this was a courtesy car. This should be an open and shut case as the office owns the land and could just request Smart Parking to cancel the ticket, but the office manager is insisting that the ticket be appealed. I was just wondering if based on the PCN and signage, if there were any obvious grounds for appeal.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.









nosferatu1001
WHy dont they want to tell Smart to cancel it?
What does the work policy state about using courtesy cars?
Ecko
They recently introduced this new ANPR system and I don't see the issue, but the office manager is not a generally nice nor helpful person (that's me putting it nicely) and refuses to do anything about it until I appeal.
nosferatu1001
You didnt answer both questions.
ostell
I presume there was no windscreen ticket. This is a hire car as it was provided by the garage and they have given your name and address to remove liability from themselves. Did you also get copies of the hire agreement and the original PCN to the garage? Probably not and therefore they have failed POFA 14 2 a and therefore no hirer liability. Edit your first post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred

They have failed to give notice of liability, 14 5 c
Dave65
If it is a new ANPR system that Smart have introduced it may be worth checking with the Council planning that they have the required consent both for planning and advertising for signage.

I know from past experience that Smart do not always have the required approval.

Also, the point of "Permit Holders Only" cannot make a contract with non permit holders, only trespass.
Ecko
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 10:47) *
You didnt answer both questions.


Apologies about that, I checked with the company I work for, to see if there was anything in their contract with the office building regarding parking, all I was told is that they just sent out a notice regarding the introduction of this new system being installed.


QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 11:03) *
I presume there was no windscreen ticket. This is a hire car as it was provided by the garage and they have given your name and address to remove liability from themselves. Did you also get copies of the hire agreement and the original PCN to the garage? Probably not and therefore they have failed POFA 14 2 a and therefore no hirer liability. Edit your first post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred

They have failed to give notice of liability, 14 5 c


Edited first post (thought I'd cleaned everything off it - Many thanks for that). All they sent through was the PCN, three of them in fact as I had the car for three days. So they should have sent me the a copy of the original and the hire agreement?

So based on their failure, should I appeal on that basis?
nosferatu1001
Yes they have to send through a copy of the hire agreement. Thats the most important bit they will certainly NOT have sent.

You can check out POFA for yourself - have you done so?
ostell
The following might help. One for each PCN

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.



Send so that it arrives on day 20 after the date on the letter so that they cannot correct and resend within the relevant perion. You appear to have multiple PCNs so you will have to juggle the dates of sending so that they are not alerted too soon.

First class post with free certificate of posting from a post office


Would be interesting to see if the actually applied to the DVLA for the keep details on each occasion as if not that would kill 2 of the claims

For future use the signs are forbidding and not offering a contract to park for non permit holders. With no contract there can be no breach and therefore no charge.
Jlc
QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 10:09) *
...you will have to juggle the dates of sending so that they are not alerted too soon.

Indeed, but they don't appear to be so smart in getting this right at any time!
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