Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Bailiff enforcing Merseyflow fine
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Convesctuoso11
Hi guys, first time poster here.

So, 2 days ago, my girlfriend had the horrendous experience of being (as my documented next of kin) contacted by a bailiff with a warrant of control and (apparently) the right to enter our property and remove assets etc, or to pay the total of £380!

Turns out this was related to an unpaid Merseyflow bridge toll from back in February. Annoyingly, it must have just slipped my mind as I think I was late and rushing to a medical training session at the time. The reason it got to this level was that it seems I hadn't updated my v5c and all the letters were going to my old address! Despite having given our forwarding address to the old landlord and tenants, none of these were ever forwarded.

My worry now is not so much the cost of the fine but whether I have a CCJ. I would have thought I clearly would have, however a check on my credit score shows it to be unaffected, and a direct check on the register itself (paid the £6) shows no judgements. The documentation from the bailiff shows a warrant of control to have been issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre on 10/6/19, so, it being over a month I would've thought it would show up by now.

Thanks to all the helpful posters previously, I'm thankfully now aware of the potential to apply for a set aside etc but I can't yet find evidence that I actually have a CCJ.

Should I wait, get legal advice, or just commence the set aside proceedings? Or commence the out of time witness statement in relation to the fine?

Also, would having not updated my V5c give me no grounds for applying for a set aside if it came to that?

Thanks ever so much for reading this guys!
PASTMYBEST
You will not get a CCJ for this . You can apply to make a statutory declaration out of time that you did not receive the notices. The authority can object to this and if they do it will likely be rejected to contest further would cost a minimum of £100 that is unlikely to be recoverable so you have to assess the worth of that route

but as I said you will not have or get a CCJ for this
RogueMelon
QUOTE
Also, would having not updated my V5c give me no grounds for applying for a set aside if it came to that?


Not sure how that would stand you as it is your responsibility to inform DVLA of the address change.

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-address-v5c?...11-fd95525ddf40

How long had you left it with the wrong address?
Neil B
QUOTE (RogueMelon @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:43) *
QUOTE
Also, would having not updated my V5c give me no grounds for applying for a set aside if it came to that?


Not sure how that would stand you as it is your responsibility to inform DVLA of the address change.

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-address-v5c?...11-fd95525ddf40

How long had you left it with the wrong address?

I'm glad you're not sure --- because we can't be, without all the relevant facts of the case.
Hence your last sentence, 'Rogue', is a good question.

Failure to update is not always the salient issue.

We also know Merseyflow to be more forgiving than most enforcement authorities.
Convesctuoso11
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 15:31) *
You will not get a CCJ for this . You can apply to make a statutory declaration out of time that you did not receive the notices. The authority can object to this and if they do it will likely be rejected to contest further would cost a minimum of £100 that is unlikely to be recoverable so you have to assess the worth of that route

but as I said you will not have or get a CCJ for this


Thanks so much for the reply. That's a massive relief at least! Would the bailiff not have had to have had a county court judgement in order to enter the property and seize assets etc? I worried the warrant of control was essentially a CCJ...
Incandescent
The procedure is that the council register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (TEC), the "court" bit, and can then issue an Order for Recovery which can be paid, and if not, and no statutory declaration is submitted to TEC, can then instruct bailiffs to recover the debt. Hence there is no CCJ.

At the stage of the process you are now at, the only avenue to reverting the process to the original PCN is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration to TEC. This can be opposed by the enforcement authority (Mersey Gateway), who will state they issued all the statutory documents to the name and address on the V5. Experience of this forum is that DART and also Mersey Gateway are not as rapacious and ruthless as councils, but even so, you may struggle to get this £380 overturned and get back to the PCN. The plain fact is the situation is of your own making in not updating the V5 for the vehicle.

It might be prudent to contact Sheila at: -

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

who can advise on the likelihood of success and who, for a fee, (small), will prepare your OOT.
Neil B
Or it might be prudent to give us all the relevant dates, as a start.
Neil B
rolleyes.gif
Suit yourself.
Convesctuoso11
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 23:37) *
The procedure is that the council register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (TEC), the "court" bit, and can then issue an Order for Recovery which can be paid, and if not, and no statutory declaration is submitted to TEC, can then instruct bailiffs to recover the debt. Hence there is no CCJ.

At the stage of the process you are now at, the only avenue to reverting the process to the original PCN is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration to TEC. This can be opposed by the enforcement authority (Mersey Gateway), who will state they issued all the statutory documents to the name and address on the V5. Experience of this forum is that DART and also Mersey Gateway are not as rapacious and ruthless as councils, but even so, you may struggle to get this £380 overturned and get back to the PCN. The plain fact is the situation is of your own making in not updating the V5 for the vehicle.

It might be prudent to contact Sheila at: -

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

who can advise on the likelihood of success and who, for a fee, (small), will prepare your OOT.


Thanks for that Incandescent. Big relief at least regarding the CCJ, had no idea about the intricate legal labyrinth these driving fines go down with the TEC etc.

As you say, it's not a certainty submitting the OOT statement so I suppose I'd have to weigh the risks and benefits of it. Would the fact that I paid the £380 to the bailiff count as me accepting the fine/unable to contest it via the OOT?Surely there must be a precedent for someone submitting an OOT statement ibthsi situation though, as I'd imagine it to be the most common cause for things to get this stage.

Thanks again for your helpful advice!
Convesctuoso11
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 00:23) *
Or it might be prudent to give us all the relevant dates, as a start.

Thanks for the reply!

Think most of the relevant ones are in the first post, but in chronological order they are:

Date of contravention/crossing: 6/2/19
Warrant of control issued to bailiff: 10/6/19
Bailiff contact: 29/7/19

Regarding the V5c, I moved back in October. I did update the V5c immediately after I found out however.
.
Neil B
QUOTE (Convesctuoso11 @ Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 22:05) *
As you say, it's not a certainty submitting the OOT statement so I suppose I'd have to weigh the risks and benefits of it. Would the fact that I paid the £380 to the bailiff count as me accepting the fine/unable to contest it via the OOT?Surely there must be a precedent for someone submitting an OOT statement ibthsi situation though, as I'd imagine it to be the most common cause for things to get this stage.

Thanks again for your helpful advice!

Situation remains the same; no details and no advice can be given on your chances.
See post #4

So far we have "February", "failed to update V5" and "contacted". dontknow.gif

edit. Reply noted.
Neil B
Re "contacted".
How?
What notices served?

Neil B
Given the successes reported by a bailiff expert member here, it is an absolute no-brainer to
try an OOT application.
You just have to marshall your facts first.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2020 Invision Power Services, Inc.