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Motorist2018
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2019
Date of the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25 Junction 10 to 11, Wisley to Chertsey
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I do not remember whether there were signs.

I have been on a safety awareness course for a similar offense (Cornwall Police):
Date of Offense - 06/06/18
Location - A388 The Old Crocadon junction towards The Glebe junction, St
Mellion, Cornwall.
Rocerded speed - 38mph on a 30 mph


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:21:12 +0000
thisisntme
What was your speed, and what was the limit shown?

They need no signs at all for a conviction. Penalty will depend on your speed and the posted limit. You might get a course if you are within the qualification speed as there is a different course for smart motorways.
The Rookie
That section of mway is, I believe, monitored by HADECS3 cameras so any photographic evidence will include a photo of the gantry sign and the limit that prevailed. So you could write and ask for copies of any photo's to help you identify the driver (don't demand evidence) and see what they show.

Would you have been doing 38 if no lower limit was displayed? Or are you confusing us with details of a different offence? If so alleged sped and limit?
southpaw82
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 11:34) *
They need no signs at all for a conviction.

Come again?
cp8759
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 12:14) *
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 11:34) *
They need no signs at all for a conviction.

Come again?

Restricted road maybe?
Motorist2018
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 11:34) *
What was your speed, and what was the limit shown?

They need no signs at all for a conviction. Penalty will depend on your speed and the posted limit. You might get a course if you are within the qualification speed as there is a different course for smart motorways.


I was doing 71 and the document states the limit was 60. I do not recall seeing any signs for 60, although that could be me not paying attention.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 11:36) *
That section of mway is, I believe, monitored by HADECS3 cameras so any photographic evidence will include a photo of the gantry sign and the limit that prevailed. So you could write and ask for copies of any photo's to help you identify the driver (don't demand evidence) and see what they show.

Would you have been doing 38 if no lower limit was displayed? Or are you confusing us with details of a different offence? If so alleged sped and limit?


Please advise, who/where would I request the evidence?
NewJudge
QUOTE (Motorist2018 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:14) *
Please advise, who/where would I request the evidence?

You would not ask for "evidence". See Rookie's post #3.
The Rookie
QUOTE (Motorist2018 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:14) *
Please advise, who/where would I request the evidence?

From the people who sent you the NIP........?

PHOTO's not evidence of course.
southpaw82
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:03) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 12:14) *
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 11:34) *
They need no signs at all for a conviction.

Come again?

Restricted road maybe?

Not on a special road. I suspect the comment was in respect of speed camera warning signs but of course speed limit signs would still be required.
The Rookie
There is a different course for variable speed limits, so its possible you'll still be offered one.
cp8759
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:53) *
Not on a special road. I suspect the comment was in respect of speed camera warning signs but of course speed limit signs would still be required.

I was looking at the reference to the A388, of course a special road cannot be restricted.

As the previous course was related to an all-purpose road, and this detection relates to a motorway, a course will be available so the best option is to return the nomination promptly and they should offer a motorway speed awareness course (or a variable speed limit course).
thisisntme
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:53) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:03) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 12:14) *
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 11:34) *
They need no signs at all for a conviction.

Come again?

Restricted road maybe?

Not on a special road. I suspect the comment was in respect of speed camera warning signs but of course speed limit signs would still be required.


I'd assumed that a limit was shown on the overheads and also assumed that the OP was referring to speed camera signs. Also many of these cameras are active for speeds above 70 when no limit shown, so my comment wasn't really inaccurate - in fact my assumption was correct wink.gif
southpaw82
QUOTE (thisisntme @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 21:54) *
so my comment wasn't really inaccurate

No, just ambiguous.
Motorist2018
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 15:29) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 14:53) *
Not on a special road. I suspect the comment was in respect of speed camera warning signs but of course speed limit signs would still be required.

I was looking at the reference to the A388, of course a special road cannot be restricted.

As the previous course was related to an all-purpose road, and this detection relates to a motorway, a course will be available so the best option is to return the nomination promptly and they should offer a motorway speed awareness course (or a variable speed limit course).

Would this be my only option? i.e. take my chances that they will send me on a safety awareness motorway course, OR see that I have already been on the course and hence give me 6 points and a fine.
Logician
You have no choice but to nominate yourself as the driver, failure to do so will earn you 6 points and a hefty fine, whether any offence was committed or not. So you must do that, which is not admitting any offence, and you will then see whether you offer you a course. You still have the option to put forward a defence if you believe you have one.
Motorist2018
I have managed to download the camera images to dropbox link below, can anyone advise if there is chance I can appeal at a later stage (i.e. after I have sent my details and receive the penalty).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/al1vk6fixqstwn4/...tDj6SD1q4a?dl=0
The Rookie
You appeal a decision, there is no decision to appeal!

You either take what ever resolution the Police offer (course or fixed penalty) or you don't and then defend the allegation in court. The signs are clearly shown, what defence do you think you can offer?
cp8759
You must name yourself as the driver, if you don't you commit a more serious offence (failing to name the driver) which carries 6 points and a substantial fine.

Once you've named yourself as the driver, the police will write to you again to let you know what your options are, at that point if you want you can come back here for advice.
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