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HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
Hi everyone,

I've been browsing the internet looking for some advice, and have ended on this forum.

I have no previous motoring offences, not even a speed awareness course.

I was caught speeding on 03/July, 89mph in a 70mph zone. Today, 22/July I have received a letter stating that I need to pay £100.00 and receive three penalty points on my licence. This letter is dated 12/July. This was a Friday, so I presume it should have arrived on 15/July, a Monday, which would have been in the 14 day period.

I am in the military, so on all my addresses I have my service number on the top line of the address - this ensures that I receive mail straight away. If not, it goes via a mail office on camp, which sorts out all the mail that has just gone a name. Even on my driving licence, the address written on it includes my service number, I always make sure that every person/organisation that has my address and who may use it, will have the most accurate address.

For this reason, I don't understand why the issued speeding ticket just had my name and not my service as well - which is clearly on my address that the DVLA have.

On this basis, could I confidently argue that this speeding ticket is not valid, due to receiving it well out of the 14 day period, because the sender wrote the wrong address?

I'm sorry if this is unclear, this is a first for me to have this sort of problem.

I would appreciate all help and advice.

Many thanks.
BaggieBoy
Dig out your V5C and check the name/address is correct.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 21:52) *
Dig out your V5C and check the name/address is correct.


I'm 99% positive that it is. I'll have to check on Friday as I don't have access to my documentation until then.
The Rookie
What county is this?

Very few counties use the ‘super NIP’ which includes a fixed penalty offer, with most you would be asked to confirm you were driving before getting the fixed penalty offer.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 22:08) *
What county is this?

Very few counties use the ‘super NIP’ which includes a fixed penalty offer, with most you would be asked to confirm you were driving before getting the fixed penalty offer.


This was Avon & Somerset.
Logician
That is one that does, so what you received would be the first NIP.

It may be that an automated system is used which picked up your name only, not being programmed to accept numbers as part of the name.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 01:25) *
That is one that does, so what you received would be the first NIP.

It may be that an automated system is used which picked up your name only, not being programmed to accept numbers as part of the name.


Interesting. It is asking me to send back the form with all my details, and also tick a box to accept three points and the fine, to be paid online or over the phone.
The Rookie
That is normal for A&S yes. You will also be being told you have to send in your licence as well.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 12:30) *
That is normal for A&S yes. You will also be being told you have to send in your licence as well.


That is correct.

Back to the first post, do I have any grounds to argue that I didn't receive it in 14 days?
southpaw82
You may have to tell us more about how post is dealt with at your establishment. Does post come in to a central office and is then distributed (so that there is a delay in you physically receiving it) or does it come to you directly, as in delivered to your home/accommodation by the postman? It probably doesn’t help you if a post room has sat on it for a week.

Checking your V5C is vital.
Jlc
QUOTE (HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 13:47) *
Back to the first post, do I have any grounds to argue that I didn't receive it in 14 days?

You stated it was potentially within 14 days in your OP - i.e. it was dated to be presumed delivered within 14 days. (Just not to the exact address of your liking)

Regardless, the driving needs naming.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 13:57) *
You may have to tell us more about how post is dealt with at your establishment. Does post come in to a central office and is then distributed (so that there is a delay in you physically receiving it) or does it come to you directly, as in delivered to your home/accommodation by the postman? It probably doesn’t help you if a post room has sat on it for a week.

Checking your V5C is vital.


The post goes into a mail office and then goes directly to the individual, providing the service number is on the address. This takes place on the same day.

If the service number is not on the address, then it goes to a Clerk in a separate office, which then takes about 10 days to receive mail. Hence, I always ensure that whenever I give my address, my service number is on there.
The Rookie
The trouble for you as I see it is that your service No. isn’t part of your address, so I don’t think you have an argument it was incorrectly addressed. While the presumption of service two working days after posting could be argued on the basis you didn’t get it until later, I think a court will also take the view that delivery to the sorting area is service.
Logician
I agree, if the delay was owing to the Royal Mail being slow to deliver directly to you, or could not do so as a result of a failure to put your service number on the envelope I think you would have a case, but a delay caused by inefficiency in the military mail office I do not think helps you at all.
southpaw82
QUOTE (HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 15:43) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 13:57) *
You may have to tell us more about how post is dealt with at your establishment. Does post come in to a central office and is then distributed (so that there is a delay in you physically receiving it) or does it come to you directly, as in delivered to your home/accommodation by the postman? It probably doesn’t help you if a post room has sat on it for a week.

Checking your V5C is vital.


The post goes into a mail office and then goes directly to the individual, providing the service number is on the address. This takes place on the same day.

If the service number is not on the address, then it goes to a Clerk in a separate office, which then takes about 10 days to receive mail. Hence, I always ensure that whenever I give my address, my service number is on there.

So, your service number was not on the NIP, therefore it went the latter route, i.e. via the clerk’s office, yes? In which case, what date was it received at your establishment? Is the address on the NIP correct for your establishment (e.g. you @ barracks etc.)? I’m not aware of any cases on point but I would imagine that if the NIP has left the postal system at the time it was delivered to your establishment then that it the date of service on you - physical service taking place later.
blackcross
How far into camp does the bloke from the Royal Mail get?

If RM can only deliver to the base sorting office, rather than to individual quarters, I think it likely that the base sorting office is where “in the normal course of post” ends.

As an aside, we had a chap from a well known SF base last year who got turfed out of an otherwise boring traffic day for turning up in gym kit, flip-flops and sunnies after coming before a chair who is a LE Major. Rather than dealing with it as contempt (his attitude stank) she told him to come back properly dressed, and with proof that his chain knew of the offence. He looked rather sorry for himself later that afternoon.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
Thank you to everybody that has replied.

All mail received on camp goes to the Mail Office, regardless of what is on the envelope or parcel. It then goes one of two ways:

1) With the service number on there, it goes straight to the individual.

2) If it just has the surname, it goes via a Clerk which takes up to two weeks. His/her job is to sort out a lot of mail.

This is why I always give my service number to any person or organisation (like the DVLA). So I can get all mail without any delay. Because the NIP received didn't have my service number on it, it went via a slower route. I view this as their fault, they didn't put my service number on the address. I am 99.9% positive that the DVLA have my service number as my address (unless for some reason the computer refused it).

So, back to my original question, am I correct or incorrect in assuming that this is the fault of the police (or whoever sent the ticket)?
douglasb
It depends on what is on your V5C (which you say you can't check until Friday). If the V5C doesn't have your service number on it then this was the Registered Keeper address that A&S would have used. Until you check the V5C nobody can tell you anything further.
southpaw82
I think you'd be hard pushed to argue that omitting your service number means that the NIP was not properly addressed. It's the first time I've ever heard of someone doing it, so I'm not surprised the police didn't see fit to include it. My view is that you face an uphill struggle because (IMO) the NIP was served on you when it was delivered to your establishment, regardless of when you actually received it.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:19) *
I think you'd be hard pushed to argue that omitting your service number means that the NIP was not properly addressed. It's the first time I've ever heard of someone doing it, so I'm not surprised the police didn't see fit to include it. My view is that you face an uphill struggle because (IMO) the NIP was served on you when it was delivered to your establishment, regardless of when you actually received it.


Understood. Thank you.

I'll dig out the V5C on Friday and double check. If it hasn't got my service number, then my mistake. If it has, I'll be a touch annoyed.

I'll post back then should it have it on it.

Thank you to everybody.
HelloBonjourBuenosDiasCiao
Hi everybody,

I checked the V5C. Annoyingly, this did not have my service number on it - so this is evidently my mistake. Fine has been paid and I will accept the points. Of course, I have also updated my address.

Thank you to everybody who helped!
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