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dandy
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Cumbria
Date of the offence: - 23 January 2006
Date of the NIP: - Unknown
Date you received the NIP: - Unknown
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M6 Brunthwaite Travelling North (N)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - NK
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

Vehicle is registered to in-laws address as I spend a lot of time up there. First NIP and reminder were not received as sent to wrong address. Policemen from local force (not Cumbria) then attended address in attemp to locate me. Policemen asked for wrong name (Christian name incorrect), and received truthful answer that occupant did not know this person.

Policemen then pushed and asked if occupant knew anyone of this surname. Occupant then provided my telephone number, which led to calls to my address. Upon these calls, I requested photographic evidence be provided (at no point have I confirmed that I am the owner/keeper of vehicle).

Photographs arrived, the still of the alleged offence shows a very blurred vehicle , with an unidentifiable number plate, recorded speed 84 mph, range 432m, cross-hairs on front bumper. Other stills, stamped ten seconds later, show vehicle registration mark, and also occupants, clearly. The front passenger is clearly visible, which I thought was against ACPO guidelines.

Latest correspondance, dated 13.07.06, states that file is now due to be processed as court file, and I may be summonsed (it does not mention section 172). I am offered the chance to nominate the driver, go to court, or comply with notice.

What do the experienced members of the forum recommend as my next move, as the six months is up tomorrow (Sunday), does this mean I can now only be charged with not providing the identity of the driver? Anyone have experience with Cumbria's attitude at the moment?

Thanks.

P.S. just found this site, and it is excellent!

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.
cjm99
To summarise....

You are the registered keeper and the keeper. A sec 172 requirement to furnish statutory information was served by first class post to the last known address of the reg. K.

Sec 172 2 .a applies. This gives you a 'reverse burden of proof' to show why you did not supply.
That said, no response is it's self proof.
QUOTE
The Director of Public Prosecutions v. Michael Anthony Grant and Others
CO/2566/2001 Neutral Citation Number: [2001]EWHC Admin 1114


Will apply.

They will 'lay an information' for s172 within the next month (inside the window).

You will need to wait for the summons and documents, and hope for a fatal flaw. Very common.

Do not communicate with them from now on.
dandy
Thanks for the advice.

What kind of 'fatal flaw' am I looking for, and how will I know it when I see it?
Blackbird
QUOTE
What kind of 'fatal flaw' am I looking for
there are just too many to list! You may not be able to spot them................but somebody here will biggrin.gif
Follow cjm99's advice above and let us know what wings its way to you wink.gif
dandy
OK, will do.

Just to clarify the initial situation, the initial NIP and reminder were addressed correctly as the V5, but they were delivered to an incorrect address by the Royal Mail and returned 'not known at this address'
cjm99
QUOTE
returned 'not known at this address'


How do you know this?
dandy
Spoke to neighbour who had returned the letters a few weeks after they had done so.
cjm99
At some point in the future, you will need to ask the neighbor to complete a section 9 CJA 1967 statement to this effect. It will suffice as a rebuttal of the assumption of service,
jeffreyarcher
I'm thoroughly confused. confused2.gif
AIUI, dandy now has a current S172 notice. Proof that he never got any previous ones (NIP or S172 notice) is not a defence to not supplying in response to this one.
Or does he not know who was driving?

QUOTE (dandy)
Latest correspondance, dated 13.07.06, states that file is now due to be processed as court file, and I may be summonsed (it does not mention section 172). I am offered the chance to nominate the driver, go to court, or comply with notice.


Dandy must therefore respond by the 8th of August (assuming this is the first one he got; I don't know, because he says 'Latest correspondance'), naming the driver, or he will be successfuly prosecuted for S172.
Since the six months for the speeding is now up, it is too late to lay an information for the speeding.

QUOTE (dandy)
Anyone have experience with Cumbria's attitude at the moment?

I don't know what you mean by their attitude. Their job is to prosecute people; they're never going to say, "It's lovely weather at the moment, let's just drop some cases." rolleyes.gif
However, they are avid readers of this forum, so you can rest assured that they are familiar with your case.
The Rookie
With JA, if you are within 28 days for the first legitimate NIP to you, then reply exactly as they want and you are in the clear, if you are not sure of driver after all this time then that should be your defence, using PACE or staying stum IMHO renders you more likely to a prosecution.

Simon
LancashireLad
Not forgetting of course that CUMBRIA READ THESE FORUMS! So be careful how much detail you add here.
dandy
Does anyone know the procedure for transferring a case to a Magistrates Court that is closer to home?

I cannot find anything on the internet.
The Rookie
You don't have a summons yet though do you, so AVOID ONE!

Simon
Whizz
I found this on here about transferring cases
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=12846
dandy
Thanks
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