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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Sowk64
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2019
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A90 Kirkcaldy to Dunfermline
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am the keeper but wasn’t the driver. I could be one of only two other people. Neither can remember who was driving. The both look very similar.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 18:14:25 +0000
Sowk64
Hi everyone, thanks for any advice. I wasn’t driving but am RK. It can only be one of two other drivers, neither of whom can remember who was driving. They are physically similar. I have done nothing. What if anything should I do?
Jlc
QUOTE (blackcross @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:30) *
...the one who wasn’t texting at the time was the driver.

Are you being serious?

QUOTE (Sowk64 @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:25) *
They are physically similar. I have done nothing. What if anything should I do?

I'm not sure of the relevance of being physically similar?

If you do nothing then you'll have a slam dunk conviction - 6 points and a large fine.

You are to use reasonable diligence to identify and name the driver - there is a statutory defence that if you did not know who was driving nor could identify them with the aforementioned diligence. In reality this is not an easy task.

What's the alleged offence?
Sowk64
Thanks everyone. Do I write to the BiB and tell them I need more to identify the driver e.f. Photos etc? If so how long do I wait before doing this? I basically want this to go away. Can I stall for 6 months?
None of us have a clue who was driving but it definitely wasn’t me. Both possibles are family but not siblings or twins. Sorry if these are basic questions. I did have some speeding points years ago but none for a long time and I’m sure tactics have changed.
Thanks again!
morrisman
QUOTE (Sowk64 @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
I basically want this to go away.


If you do not nominate a driver the speeding offence will go away and you will be stuck with 6 points and £100 for failure to furnish and your insurance company will really hate the endorsement code.
The Rookie
Well you see if they will cooperate in trying to identify the driver, if one is ‘covering their ass’ point out you risk 6 points if you can’t identify the driver.

When replying you MUST give full details of both possible drivers if you still haven’t been able to identify one.
blackcross
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 20:05) *
the father has no automotive right to check their phones.


OP can’t force an admission out of them, or hack their phones to get the data, but the onus is on OP to show which steps s/he took that s/he could reasonably be expected to take.

Had our chap been able to tell us that he had asked his lads to check, but they had refused, then his claim to have used reasonable diligence would have been rather more compelling. He didn’t get convicted for having recalcitrant sons, but for not making sufficient effort.
Sowk64
Ok, sorry if I’m being dim here. I’m only asking what my options are. If I send the form back it will be rejected as the driver is not the same gender as me. I need more to identify who it was. Should I write to the issuer asking for more to help me identify after 28 days or wait til I get a reminder?
If the evidence I do get is inconclusive what do I do then other than check mobile phone data (assuming location etc is turned on)?
Genuinely asking for advice here.
NewJudge
QUOTE (morrisman @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 20:19) *
If you do not nominate a driver the speeding offence will go away and you will be stuck with 6 points and £100 for failure to furnish and your insurance company will really hate the endorsement code.

It will be considerably more than that.
The Rookie
What you do is start carrying out reasonable diligence, ask for help from the camera office but start doing anything else straight away.

If it’s addressed to you, you are the one replying whether you were driving or not!
Jlc
And you can’t stall those 28 days.

Doing nothing will almost certainly be a slam dunk conviction. And as noted you can be convicted even if you weren’t driving.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Sowk64 @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 20:29) *
If I send the form back it will be rejected as the driver is not the same gender as me.

What?
Sowk64
I meant if I sign and return the form when I wasn’t driving the photo evidence they claim to have will not be me as I’m male and the likely driver is female!
Jlc
The request is to name who was the driver, not who wasn't.

One way of reading your post was that if you named yourself as driving (male) and the photo shows a female (if frontal). That would be an extremely bad thing to do (potentiality time in jail).

The best approach would be to discuss with the 2 potential drivers who was most likely driving, check any relevant information (phone GPS for example) and agree who the most likely driver was.

At the very least you could name both drivers but this doesn't strictly discharge your responsibility to unequivocally name the driver. They may pursue the s172 offence or send requests to both potential drivers - in theory you could all get 6 points that way.

You always have the option to use the statutory defence as long as you can convince them that your reasonable diligence could not identify the driver. But this isn't going to go away easily.

QUOTE (Sowk64 @ Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 19:14) *
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A90 Kirkcaldy to Dunfermline

Shouldn't that be the A92? The locus is fairly vague too?
nosferatu1001
As above

You need to make it very clear to the two possible drivers that this is a way for them to BOTH get 6 points and a £500 fine. This may focus their minds a little

ALso point out that, if you cannot trust them to nominate a driver, you may be less willing to allow them use of, at a guess, your vehicle....
southpaw82
QUOTE (Sowk64 @ Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 09:09) *
I meant if I sign and return the form when I wasn’t driving the photo evidence they claim to have will not be me as I’m male and the likely driver is female!

Presumably though you would not be naming yourself as the driver, since you weren’t driving?
cp8759
All you need to do is use reasonable diligence to identify the driver. If you show you have (really) done this, and as you weren't driving in any event, it seems unlikely the police would come after you. It's far more likely they'll send new s172 notices to the two likely drivers.
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