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Norms
Hi all..

New here, just found this site today, really wish I had found it sooner though sad.gif

I received a PCN from Havering on the 30th of April this year for a No Right Turn (code 50r) down hornchurch high Street where Lidl is. I appealed against it 2 weeks later in May.

I hadn't heard anything from them until today; a charge certificate in the post stating that they have not received any representations from me.

I submitted my appeal using their online form and when I did so, I just had a notification on the screen saying "we will be respond to your appeal within 56 days" or something to that effect and I thought nothing more of it. I did not receive any emails or anything else apart from that what appeared on the screen and these two letters in the post. As such, I don't have any evidence that I did submit an appeal..

Is there anything that I can do at this stage or is it game over for me?
PASTMYBEST
Have you got a copy of your representations to the council?
BaggieBoy
Press the REPORT button and ask a moderator to move this thread to the Council section.
Norms
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 21:57) *
Have you got a copy of your representations to the council?


I have a screenshot yes, although the site isn't allowing me to upload anything at present

QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 22:12) *
Press the REPORT button and ask a moderator to move this thread to the Council section.


Thanks, have done so
PASTMYBEST
good The next document you receive will be called an order for recovery this will allow you to make a statutory declaration to the effect that you made representations but recieved no response the CC will be revoked and the council must refer to the adjudicator who will either ask you to send a copy of your representation or to list your case for appeal
Neil B
Meanwhile, can we see the PCN and your reps.

Might seem odd but I suspect you've been lucky in a way.
hcandersen
OP, have you tried asking the council?

I made reps online on *****; you've now issued a CC; what's happened to my response from you, presumably a notice of rejection?

Just simple enquiry to establish facts.
Norms
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 6 Jul 2019 - 00:16) *
Meanwhile, can we see the PCN and your reps.

Might seem odd but I suspect you've been lucky in a way.


Yes will post this on later tonight, thank you


QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 6 Jul 2019 - 11:12) *
OP, have you tried asking the council?

I made reps online on *****; you've now issued a CC; what's happened to my response from you, presumably a notice of rejection?

Just simple enquiry to establish facts.


The phones are all automated but yes I submitted this (again using the online form) and this time I received a email receipt of the following:

"Hi I appealed against the PCN
which was issued to me on the 30th of April 2019. I submitted this appeal through your online form on the 16th of may 2019. I received a message on the screen which said that the council now had 56
days in which to respond. I didn't hear anything more and I did not receive a confirmation via email, even though my email address was provided in my appeal. Today I have received a letter dated the
4th of July saying that I'm being charged for not paying or submitting formal representations. I did appeal and submit formal representations as outlined above. I am in contact with an adjudicator over this matter but I would like to know how I can resolve it with the council first-hand?"
spaceman
QUOTE (Norms @ Sat, 6 Jul 2019 - 11:38) *
I am in contact with an adjudicator..."


No you're not.

You are in contact with London Tribunals which is the administrative support to the Adjudicator.
Norms
Here's the paperwork via Imgur https://imgur.com/a/UXZugMV

I said the following in my appeal. I know it's **** and cringey, sorry. I was expecting to have to pay the fine in the end, just wanted to delay the payment via appeal really and it's backfired somewhat...!

"I would like to request that the London Borough of Havering exercise their discretion to cancel this PCN for the reasons listed below. I do not deny that this was my vehicle that I was driving at the time, however the manoeuvre I performed was done so under duress.

As you can tell by my address, I am not local to Hornchurch or any nearby areas. This was the first time that I had been to that area in Hornchurch. If I had been local I would have known that a traffic camera was put onto this right turn last year. I would have known exactly where this offence took place down "Hornchurch High Street". As I am not local, without local knowledge, I had to Google this information extensively to find out that the PCN is referencing the "turning" going into the Lidl store.

I was trying to navigate my way back to the motorway during a busy time of the day. I did not have the use of a sat nav (which would have alerted me to the camera, which, from the pictures appears to be located up high and not in obvious view).

I also do not recall seeing a camera sign and I am having trouble finding this signage using Google Street View. As I live a considerable distance away from the area, I cannot easily travel back to review the road signage myself.

I had realised quickly at the time that I had missed my right turn at the traffic lights, trying to navigate my way back to the motorway. Unfortunately my son who is autistic and incredibly anxious, realised what I had done and started panicking that we were "lost". He started screaming and crying which in turn upset my younger child who then was also screaming and crying. This did distract me somewhat from observing the signage effectively.

As there is no safe place to stop down that very busy road, I decided that my best option was to turn into the car park, which is the next available "right turn" from the traffic lights (if we discount the signage momentarily) to turn my car around to go back in the correct direction to alleviate the stress that all passengers were under at the time.

If you have video footage, you will see that I wasn't making a trip to the supermarket, that I didn't go into the Lidl store at all, but I simply used the car park to do a 3-point turn safely and exited immediately turning left towards the traffic lights.

I myself am experiencing a period of financial hardship and I will find it incredibly difficult and distressing to pay the large amount which has been charged.

I would therefore again like to kindly ask the borough to exercise their leniency and good conscience on this one isolated occasion and to consider using this PCN as a warning for someone who is not local and who is very unlikely to be a repeat offender and for someone who has never received such a notice from Havering borough before.

Kind regards"
cp8759
Right forget about the representations for a minute, the only thing that counts is that you made them. You must now wait for a document call the Order for Recovery, this will allow you to file a Statutory Declaration on the basis that you made representations but did not receive a Notice of Rejection. This will reset the penalty to £130 and the tribunal will then deal with the case as an appeal. You can read about the process here: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process (scroll to the bottom of the page and read the paragraph that says "Statutory Declaration").
Neil B
If you don't have the OfR by end of month, come back here.

and come back anyway when the adjudicator gets involved.
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