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Full Version: TfL PCN Contravention Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
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BoxJunctioned
Hi everyone,

I wanted to seek some advice on a recent PCN I received as the registered owner of the car.

I was not the driver at the time, I was the passenger, however I am aware the responsibility for the PCN lies with me.

Here is a copy of the PCN Notice, I have tried to obfuscate all potentially identifiable information, but can provide relevant information as required. (I have also not used ImageShack before, and I am not sure if the full-size images are legible - if they are not, please advise and I will attempt to scan and re-upload them in higher quality.)



I received the PCN within 2 days of it's "Date of this notice" date, and on the next working day (as their lines were closed over the weekend) I called up and requested CCTV footage, after looking up advice about appealing, and finding this forum. (Which I think is an amazing resource by the way, huge appreciation for everyone who spends their free time helping people out here!)

I can't remember exactly what the advisor said, but I was assured the time it took to receive the footage would not count in my 28 day time limit to pay/appeal the PCN.

11-12 days later I received a brown A5 envelope with only a letter in it (dated 10 days after the original PCN Notice date) but no CD or USB stick, saying "...Please find enclosed footage which you should be able to view on a PC/laptop." As there was no footage in the envelope, I called them up again straight away to advise that what they sent didn't include the actual footage. I was placed on hold and the advisor shortly returned apologising, and saying a new on would be sent out.

I received the footage last week (recorded delivery this time), dated 1 month after the original PCN date, and have reviewed it: https://youtu.be/bJ9mGxRuSpE?t=140


The angle of the camera is sharp (my car would have just turned right onto the main road from a side road, a few cars' length before the box junction begins), and there is a second CCTV camera in the area showing the opposite angle, but I have not been sent that camera's perspective.
I have tried hard to understand exactly the laws pertaining to box junctions, but I am struggling slightly. I have read several articles on this forum (one with a detailed post from a user called Hippocrates), but these posts are from several years ago and I am unsure of what exactly constitutes a contravention of this nature, or if the arguments in their detailed "draft letter" post are still valid.
  • Can anyone advise if the contravention has occurred? (Would be great to understand exactly why, but a detailed answer is not required!)
  • If it has, are there any other grounds for appeal (ie Issues with documents which would render the PCN invalid)? Again, I will upload in better quality if the current photos are no good.
  • Is it worth me also uploading the letters that came after the CCTV footage requests?
Thank you again, everyone, I really appreciate any help anyone can give me (even if it's bad news)! smile.gif
stamfordman
Yes, put the video on youtube, vimeo, imgur or such like. The video is the only way to judge these contraventions.

The pic on the PCN doesn't look encouraging though.

BoxJunctioned
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly, stamfordma. I have now uploaded to YouTube: https://youtu.be/bJ9mGxRuSpE?t=140 (it's a long video, skip to about 2:30 for the right part).

I agree it does not look great, and so my next question would be, are there any other grounds for appeal? (ie In this post: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78510 a user cites various previous appeals and lays out arguments regarding "defects" in the PCN, which would render it null and unenforceable - is this still the case, or have things changed since 2013?)


Thanks again for your help! Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. smile.gif
Neil B
QUOTE (BoxJunctioned @ Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 13:43) *
Can anyone advise if the contravention has occurred? (Would be great to understand exactly why, but a detailed answer is not required!)

Yes.

'no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.'
cp8759
TFL moving traffic PCNs are compliant as far as we know, and the contravention looks banged-to-rights to be honest. Unless the PCN is addressed to "The Company Secretary", the discount looks good.
hcandersen
the discount looks good.

which begs the question: at what stage is the OP?

OP, you posted: but I was assured the time it took to receive the footage would not count in my 28 day time limit to pay/appeal the PCN.

Why 28 days, what about the discount?

OP, we need a simple annotated timeline:
Contravention date:
PCN issued:
Request for video:
Empty envelope:
Further request:
Video received:
Current status of penalty.
BoxJunctioned
Firstly thank you so much to everyone who took the time to reply - I genuinely appreciate the effort taken to read and review my post!

I am (fairly) sure I understand the contravention now... It was a mistake on the drivers part, and they understand where they went wrong. It's an expensive mistake, but one neither of us will make again!

I am sorry that I was not clear enough in my post, and would now like to provide a timeline with key details as requested:

Contravention date: Tuesday 30/04/2019
PCN issued: Friday 03/05/2019
Request for video: Monday 06/05/2019 (lines closed on date received - Sat 04/05/2019)
Empty envelope: Dated Thursday 16/05/2019 (received Thursday 22/05/2019)
Further request: Thursday 22/05/2019
Video received: Thursday 06/06/2019 (dated Tuesday 04/06/2019, by recorded delivery)
Current status of penalty: Intend to pay discounted fee (if still possible) this evening Monday 17/06/2019

(Sorry for the bad formatting, I am currently using my phone on my lunch break.)

Thank you again all, I appreciate your advice and especially your time. I intend to pay the fine this evening, hopefully at the discounted rate, as this seems to be my best/only option. smile.gif

Thank you again!


Edited as I put the wrong months in several of the dates above.

Also to answer cp8759, no, unfortunately it was addressed correctly in my name!

hcandersen, yes, I think I meant the 14 (discounted) / 28 days (full fee) timescale was put on hold. I have logged in online and the fee is still £65.00 thankfully!

And thank you to Neil B - although it wasn't the answer I was hoping for, it's reassuring to get a second opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about!

In case anyone is interested, these are the notes on the PCN when I went to pay online:

03 June 2019
On Hold
The PCN has been placed on hold. While it's on hold it will not progress.

16 May 2019
On Hold
The PCN has been placed on hold. While it's on hold it will not progress.

06 May 2019
On Hold
The PCN has been placed on hold. While it's on hold it will not progress.

03 May 2019
PCN Batched
N/A
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