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Full Version: A new CPZ for Colindale and Burnt Oak (NW London)
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I-LOV-MONEY
The new CPZ came into operation today. Most roads are now restricted to residents only between 9am - 4pm. The council are kindly allowing pay-by-phone in some bays!

One part of the area is however, restricted 8am - 6.30pm (Mon-Fri) which includes a road near to a tube station. This previously had just a one hour restriction during the afternoon. Driving along the road earlier today I saw a number of cars parked, mostly with PCNs attached. Some roads have had temporary notices on lamposts stating that new parking controls take place from today. This road didn't have such a sign, but the plate over the parking bays was changed sometime on Saturday. (A lot of the new signs in the area had been going up over the past few weeks, and I was hoping that they had 'forgotten' about this road!)

The road is relatively narrow and it would have been impossible for people to park on both sides of the road, so people parked mainly in the residents bays outside the restricted hours. Between these bays are a couple of drop down kerbs to houses, and the road bends as well so no bays were marked out there, however people did used to park outside the bays but not in front of the houses. Between the bays is a SYL.

I believe that most of the road will be empty now because the two houses have their own driveway, and the otherside of the road is flats and they have their own parking area next to the buildings, off the road. Therefore parking on the otherside of the road would be feasable. There is a yellow parking sign by the entrance to the road, and that still shows the old parking restriction times. There is a SYL along the length of the road. So my queries are, would it be okay to park on the SYL outside of the restricted time? Also the side of the road where the parking bays are, there is space between the bays where people have parked in the past. This has a SYL, but I don't recall a plate on that side of the road. Would it be covered by the sign across the road? One other consideration is that this road is off a main road (bus route), and on entry to that road there is the CPZ sign. Is one expected to believe that this covers all roads off the main road, unless there is a Zone End sign at the beginning of the smaller road?

Thank you, as always.
stamfordman
Single yellow lines must either have their own timeplate or if in a CPZ be controlled by the entry signs.

A line in a CPZ can have its own timeplate and that takes priority over the CPZ.

A line outside a CPZ with no timeplate cannot be enforced.

Of course you can park on them outside of restricted times.

I-LOV-MONEY
Thanks stamfordman.
The actual road does not have a CPZ sign, but the main road which it feeds off does. It does have its own yellow timeplate. I therefore presume that it is 'safe' to park on the SYL when there is no restriction in force, according to the timeplate.
stamfordman
Here we are talking about lines not roads with timeplates? A contiguous stretch of single yellow with a timeplate is restricted only by that timeplate. Now council may have left it there by mistake but you are entitled to rely on it. Take a pic just in case.Once you pass a CPZ entry sign you are in the CPZ so this may be a mistake but is the timeplate the same as the CPZ?

As this isn't a case this thread should really be in the flame pit.
Earl Purple
As usual there seems to be a mix of terms which causes a lot of confusion. CPZ is commonly used to indicate an area of restricted parking where residents can park in bays with a permit and there are often bays for everyone if they pay, but in actual fact CPZ actually refers to single yellow line restrictions within the area that are not individually signed.

I find it quite strange that Barnet seem to divide Burnt Oak and Colindale by which side of Gervase Road / Booth Road you are on rather than which side of Montrose Avenue you are, as I have always considered Montrose Avenue to be the main dividing line, particularly as that is I think where it changes from HA8 (Edgware, of which Burnt Oak is a part) to NW9 (West Hendon / Kingsbury and includes Colindale).

No doubt Orange Hill Road and the roads off it will soon end up getting restrictions too. I notice that part is currently untouched but no doubt commuter traffic will all move there.

I-LOV-MONEY
(I have been out all day).

To add to (my?) confusion the road which has parking bays has yellow lines between each parking bay. However, on that side of the road there is no timeplate for the yellow lines (as far as I can see.).

Earl Purple, as you seem to know the area, maybe you can have a look at Pasteur Close, just before / after Colindale tube station.

If this is the case what status do the yellow lines have? I noticed a car parked on them this morning had a PCN (as did other cars parked in the bays).

The other side of the road which has a continuous yellow line, other than for openings to private parking areas and house driveways, does have a timeplate with the old restrictions on it.
stamfordman
You can see the exact boundaries of the new CPZs here:

https://www.barnet.gov.uk/parking/parking-a...n-colindale-and
I-LOV-MONEY
Yes, Pasteur Close that I mentioned is within the new CPZ - an 'upgrade' from a one hour time restriction to all day.

However, my point is that where there are parking bays the sign immediately above them shows the new restricted times. What about the yellow lines between them, where there doesn't seem to ba timeplate? Do we automatically accept the new times because it is within the CPZ (in which case why put up a sign for the parking bays?)
stamfordman
as I said:

Single yellow lines must either have their own timeplate or if in a CPZ be controlled by the entry signs.

A line in a CPZ can have its own timeplate and that takes priority over the CPZ.
I-LOV-MONEY
Had another look at the road today. It is in the CPZ area.

One side, where people have parked in the past, there are parking bays with signs over them giving the restricted times. Between the parking bays are SYL and there is no timeplate. However, presumably because it is in the CPZ those times prevail.

The other side of the road also has SYL, no parking bays, but the timeplate at the beginning of the road gives the old one hour restriction. This, I understand, overrules the CPZ notice and one can safely park there outside of the timeplate restricted hour. I suppose I ought to take a photo of the plate when I park, just in case they change it during the time I am there.
I-LOV-MONEY
I would be grateful if stamfordman or someone would confirm my understanding (above) is correct from stamfordman's post of 11 June. I can park on the SYL in a CPZ where the timeplate is different from the CPZ sign.
(I suspect the sign will be changed if I get away with it!).

Thank you.
cp8759
QUOTE (I-LOV-MONEY @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 17:20) *
I would be grateful if stamfordman or someone would confirm my understanding (above) is correct from stamfordman's post of 11 June. I can park on the SYL in a CPZ where the timeplate is different from the CPZ sign.
(I suspect the sign will be changed if I get away with it!).

Thank you.

Only if you park there outside of the restricted hours posted on the timeplate.

They can't just take the timeplate down, they would need to amend the underlying order as well.
I-LOV-MONEY
Thank you cp8759. Just saw your reply, because I didn't get an e-mail alert.
I may well park there then when I next need to use the tube station that it is near, and leave a note on the dashboard "CEO. Please see timeplate at the beginning of this road". Hopefully it would save the bother of challenging a ticket if it came.
stamfordman
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 15:28) *
They can't just take the timeplate down, they would need to amend the underlying order as well.



I think it may be that this is a rogue plate they've forgotten to take down after putting in the CPZ.
I-LOV-MONEY
So the fact that it is still there, does it make it valid?
The Rookie
If its there you are entitled to rely on it and the council can't enforce a different restriction just because they forgot to take it down.

Any restriction is SET by the order and the driver INFORMED by signage, both must be in order for the order to be enforceable.
I-LOV-MONEY
Thank you. Obviously the signage is the easiest to check.
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