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Charlie1010
Might get some sleep soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
DancingDad
An example of if they can detect it, they will try to automate the detection and enforce with automatic means.
Whether it comes to pass ??
Churchmouse
QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sat, 8 Jun 2019 - 06:34) *
Might get some sleep soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995

Do you live on a hill?

Sound measurement is a lot trickier than speed measurement, especially with un-manned equipment. In order to even have a reasonable shot at getting a maximum value the device would have to be located somewhere vehicles are under power, rather than coasting.

Essex Police has a useful document outlining noise enforcement, which effectively illustrates that this is not an easy area in which to employ automated enforcement:
https://essex.police.uk/getmedia/5a4aaf2f-1...st-Offences.pdf

--Churchmouse
The Rookie
I'm wondering what these twice mentioned noise regulations are?

There is construction and use Construction and use Reg 54 regarding modification which is NOT a noise regulation at all. There is Reg 58 specifying noise and a test, but a roadside test device being driven past isn't going to comply with BS 3425:1966 and a modern type approved car doesn't have to meet the limits anyway only Reg 54.

The note by Essex about not exceeding 88dBa is incorrect as that only applies to cars not meeting certain type approval regs.
QUOTE
(2) A vehicle to which this regulation applies is not required to comply with paragraph (1) if at the time of its first use it complied with Community Directive 70/157, 73/350 or 77/212 or, in the case of an agricultural motor vehicle, 74/151, or if it is—
(My emphasis).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/10...ulation/58/made


I think this is about as credible as the automated devices being used to catch those using a hand held phone.......
DancingDad
@Rookie
Any reason why you are ignoring C&U regs 55 and 57 ?
I may be misreading but they seem to cover majority of cars and motorbikes.
54 doesn't give specifics but does point to EU directives that do.
Plus 54(2) would seem to block any vehicle with a modified exhaust which is louder the factory fitted "approved".
Monster 900
I guess speed cameras aren't as lucrative as they used to be.
typefish


How cute. I have a car that has 99dBA on its SVA...
Charlie1010
It’s a straight road. 30 mph limit with a school and a zebra crossing but these are mostly ignored as the drivers have no respect for anyone else apart from maybe themselves.
Aftermarket exhausts are very loud here. Noisy and polluting.
Police have stopped a few and given warnings regarding insurance.
One a section 59 as he didn’t heed the warning.

Acoustic cameras can be accurate as they use the intensity method.

https://www.norsonic.ch/files/produkte/System_Overview.pdf
Redivi
An after-market exhaust is illegal if it's louder than the original equipment, even if it doesn't breach the limits

It contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle which IIRC is an offence under the Road Traffic Act
The Rookie
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 8 Jun 2019 - 14:02) *
@Rookie
Any reason why you are ignoring C&U regs 55 and 57 ?

Reg 55 requires that a car meets type approval limits, a type approved car meeting Reg 54 (i.e. not noisier than when classed as manufactured) automatically meets reg 55, I didn't need to ignore something that is effectively a nullity.

Reg 57 is the same for motorcycles.

You can't do the type approval test at the roadside, the surface isn't as type approved and there is background noise, you need a certified test surface and no background noise for that. Plus it requires acceleration to speed over 50kph so can't be done in a 30mph limit. In reality doing that testing is way beyond the capability of ANY plod (its a specialist test) and would require significant effort and cost.

QUOTE (Redivi @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 14:17) *
An after-market exhaust is illegal if it's louder than the original equipment, even if it doesn't breach the limits

It contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle which IIRC is an offence under the Road Traffic Act

It doesn't need the RTA (or RTOA) it contravenes the C&U Reg 54.
The only way a louder exhaust can be made legal is if it's type approved under the 'second tier manufacturer' scheme and installed at an approved manufacturing sight (which can be a dealership) it's how the Subaru Prodrive kits, Ford Mountune kits, Vauxhall Irmscher exhausts etc. were legal to have fitted.
Charlie1010
I measured one vehicle at 102dB(A) using my NTi XL2 at my front door which is over 25 feet from the road.
The Rookie
QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 07:41) *
I measured one vehicle at 102dB(A) using my NTi XL2 at my front door which is over 25 feet from the road.

Which standard was that measurement compliant with?
Charlie1010
Lol.
I’ve done drive by noise tests and hemispherical noise tests to the relevant EC Directives over the last 25 years on many types of vehicles and machines. I know what you are talking about.
Obviously in this particular case it’s not possible to adhere to a specific standard as there ain’t one.

However it’s a start to gauge the levels.
With the meter set at a fast response (10ms) it’s straightforward to get a reading that means something.
Like ‘that’s loud compared to normal’.
Also background was around 55. LAFMin.
The Rookie
The issue is that a car with an active exhaust can pass the test relatively easily at 2,500 rpm and the flaps closed yet quite possibly get to those levels at 6,500 rpm with the flaps open. While I'm not saying the car was legal, you can't prove it wasn't! Mercedes x63 AMG (x denoting a range of models - C CLK E S etc.) are seriously loud with the flaps open, as are M4's.

But yes 102 is pretty darn noisy!
DancingDad
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 04:49) *
.....It doesn't need the RTA (or RTOA) it contravenes the C&U Reg 54...……….


I couldn't find anything in C&U that makes contravention an offence?
I believe the offence comes under RTA1988 s42 ?
As always willing to be corrected.

Thanks for explanation on C&U 55 & 57
Not sure I agree 100% that the values are solely type approval and cannot be applied for any vehicle on the road.
S54 cannot be used without a reference and that IMO is 55-57.
But can see where you are coming from on the difficulties.

I would have thought that any automated device could be suitably calibrated and enforcement use a margin of error.
For instance if reading is 10db higher then type approval figures, this would trigger a Notice, presumably an S172.
It would then come down to the driver to accept the points or prove to satisfaction of the court that their exhaust system meets/met C&U regs.
The Rookie
Your right DD, i was just pointing out it was caught by the blanket C&U reqt's (S42) rather than a specified offence, bad wording on my part.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 09:37) *
It would then come down to the driver to accept the points or prove to satisfaction of the court that their exhaust system meets/met C&U regs.

No the prosecution would have to prove it wasn't legal, not the driver that it was, and as there is no 'do not exceed' value for that 'test' (being generous in calling driving past a static microphone at an unknown speed in an unknown gear with unknown background noise at an unknown angle and at an unknown distance a 'test') they can't prove that. What they could do for particularly high readings is to track the car down and carry out a meaningful test.

Way way back Northern Constabulary in Scotland used to noise test cars at the roadside using the BS (as it can be carried out stationary) test and compare cars to a database of compliant results to prove a reg 54 based offence. Subaru UK fell foul of that as although the Prodrive kits were type approvable, they weren't type approved, they had to withdraw the from sale until they were type approved (and pay compensation to the owner).

We had a case on here almost as long ago of an STi owner they were taking action against, I gave him the crux of a defence in that his car was a grey import classic and that they couldn't compare it to a much later UK homologated STi (which is what they were using from the database as it dun says Impreza STi m'lud) as they were completely different cars. He didn't come back so no idea if he ran with it at all. My reading of reg 54 would be that a grey import or other 'one off' car couldn't be modified from when first deemed acceptable for registration in the UK as the 'manufactured' condition isn't always determinable. Much like date of 'manufacture' of a Prodive performance pack equipped car is actually when it goes through second tier and is issued with the build certificate.
Charlie1010
ISO5130.
DancingDad
QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 10:37) *
ISO5130.


There's cryptic for you biggrin.gif
Summary....
QUOTE
ISO 5130:2007 specifies a test procedure, environment and instrumentation for measuring the exterior sound pressure levels from road vehicles under stationary condition, providing a continuous measure of the sound pressure level over a range of engine speeds. ISO 5130:2007 applies only to road vehicles of categories L, M and N equipped with internal combustion engines.
ISO 5130:2007 is designed to meet the requirements of simplicity as far as they are consistent with reproducibility of results under the operating conditions of the vehicle.


@Rookie
C&U 97
Brings some of the concerns into subjective judgement.
For instance, your comment on active exhaust systems, no reason why a driver should be going through a residential area with revs high enough to open the exhaust.

The Rookie
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 10:30) *
For instance, your comment on active exhaust systems, no reason why a driver should be going through a residential area with revs high enough to open the exhaust.

But not illegal necessarily to do so, if it was an offence it wouldn't be the C&U, a section 3 inconsiderate would seem most appropriate.

As for the test, surely BS 3425:1966. is more appropriate seeing as it's the one specified in the C&U reg 58?
Dwain
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 09:18) *
The issue is that a car with an active exhaust can pass the test relatively easily at 2,500 rpm and the flaps closed yet quite possibly get to those levels at 6,500 rpm with the flaps open. While I'm not saying the car was legal, you can't prove it wasn't! Mercedes x63 AMG (x denoting a range of models - C CLK E S etc.) are seriously loud with the flaps open, as are M4's.

But yes 102 is pretty darn noisy!


My wife says my M4 is pretty anti-social, it's just a standard car, the Competition Pack and cars fitted with the MPE exhaust are a fair bit louder. BMW have no stopped selling MPE's apparently due to noise regulations in Germany.
DancingDad
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 12:21) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 10:30) *
For instance, your comment on active exhaust systems, no reason why a driver should be going through a residential area with revs high enough to open the exhaust.

But not illegal necessarily to do so, if it was an offence it wouldn't be the C&U, a section 3 inconsiderate would seem most appropriate.
……….

Illegality or not under either comes down to opinion.
QUOTE
Avoidance of excessive noise
97. No motor vehicle shall be used on a road in such manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.

Seems to be a catch all rolleyes.gif
Failing to take reasonable care fails this part of C&U and thus an offence under RTA S42.
It's easy to drive a powerful car or motorbike in a noisy fashion.
And just as easy not to.
I've done exactly that, V6 and V8 exhaust systems sound wonderful in the tunnels through Birmingham in second and a little welly.
Just as easy to drive through in 4th and not to be so noisy.
Just not as much fun smile.gif

Hell, at the end of the day, if the trials show that noise cameras can raise revenue...sorry, have a deterrent effect....a law will be amended to allow conviction against whatever yardstick is chosen.
Rallyman72
My neighbour has an Audi RS4, they have an active exhaust which defaults to the 'noisy' mode as a failsafe. It also, from startup, is in noisy mode until engine revs exceed 1000rpm. It then move to quiet and reverts to noisy over 4000rpm. Almost unfailingly I know when he leaves home in the morning due to the exhaust 'boom' on start up ...
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