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DC1
Hi Members,

I'm new to this forum, normally when i'm issued with a PCN, i find it easier to pay than spend hours going backwards and forwards, plus most of the the time i am in the wrong anyway. However, on this occasion i'm staring down the barrel of accumulated fines to the tune of around £800.

Allow me to explain. I am a self employed heating engineer/plumber and my main contract is with Greggs bakeries whose outlets are never in a 'parking friendly' area, my region is London and the southern home counties so it's the nature of the beast. During the months of Feb and March, i was contracted to carry out a bathroom/cloakroom refit in the Greggs flat about their shop in Electric Avenue, Brixton. Those of you who are familiar with the area will know that parking is extremely bad around this town and where Greggs (and a bunch of other shops are located in Elec Ave) there is literally nowhere close at all to leave a vehicle to load and unload. The whole job took around 13 days on and off and on around 10 of those days, i had materials to drop off in the morning and then return the vehicle to a pay by phone parking region.

On the first morning after driving round with about 20 boxes of tiles to drop for about an hour, i stopped at a junction of a small road that led to the side entrance of Greggs which gave access to the residential flat above. To be fair, there was a notice at the entrance of the road stating :

VEHICLES ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ENTER DURING OPERATIONAL HOURS WHICH ARE MON -TUES, THURS - SAT 8AM -6PM, WED 8AM -2PM (EXCEPT FOR LOADING BETWEEN 8AM -9AM AND 5PM - 6PM)

The sign itself is enough to blow your mind.

I sat at the junction (this was at about 11.30am) and clearly saw 2 and sometimes 3 vehicles in the road and to be honest, thought that they must be locals or regulars and gave me impression that parking was quite lax in that road. I decided to pull up into the road and literally at that time a parking officer walked around the corner. I briefly explained my situation clearing showing him my works order and pointing out the goods ready for delivery in my vehicle and where i needed to get them to. He acknowledged that i was in a predicament and verbally stated that he would allow me 10-15 mins to unload and then move my vehicle to an designated parking bay (about a quarter of a mile away) I also told him that i would be returning on and off for several weeks and he simply that if the vehicle is left there for unreasonable amount of time then neither him nor his colleagues would hesitate in giving me a ticket. I thanked him, offloaded my materials and tools for the day and moved my vehicle within about 5 mins so as to not abuse his good will. For clarification, there is no way i could carry the materials for that distance. To be fair, there were some loading bays a few hundred yards away that were consistently occupied and on may of the days, were full of concrete mixers and vans from groundwork contractors as there was major works going on at an adjacent junction.

Then, about a month after, i received a PCN, then another and another up to about 10 in total all showing my vehicle turning into the restricted zone on different days taken by a camera operator!!

I followed the procedure with regards appealing to the council sending copies of the official works order from Greggs, our invoice to Greggs and my letter of explanation written in a respectful manner, all as requested on the Lambeth website to back up my my statement.

Fast forward to today, and i have received 2 rejection letters and no doubt the other 7 or 8 will arrive in the next few day.

To be honest, i am a little surprised as to why this little side road has been designated a pedestrian zone, there are no shops on it, just back entrances to shops for loading and entrances to the row of residential flats above the shops. Also, it is a road, not a paved area the width of two cars so there is no blocking of the road (to pedestrians) if cars are parked. I know this isn't an argument.

To add insult to injury, the pay per park total in nearby designated bays for the time on the job amounted to around £220 so if i have to pay all the rejection letter fines when they come back, that will amount to around £1000.

On the appeal form, it states that if you are appealing under the loading/unloading section, you need to provide supporting documents such as the ones i sent over. Plus i also sent over my Gas Safe Certificate and copy of Public Liability Policy. There can be no doubt that i haven't fabricated my story so taking into account i have submitted what they have asked for, i'm guessing that asking for all that is simply a technicality and they probably don't even ponder the reasons of the appeal.

I am now thinking that the parking officer knew that i would be captured on camera but played it down, not saying he is guilty of entrapment but had he explained that even if he allowed me some breathing space, i might still be caught on camera, i would have not repeated my parking on the subsequent days.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thank you





PASTMYBEST
We need to see the first PCN ALL pages and a list of the contravention dates and times for all the others. Check they are all the same contravention.

then go online and get and post all the videos chronologically also post the notices of rejection

We should be able to help you but for the best chance you must give us the information required
DC1
Many thanks PASTMYBEST, will do that tomorrow,

DC1
DC1
Hi Pastmy

Thanks again for your reply. Out of the blue, another PCN arrived yesterday, it's almost as if they've turned it into a witch hunt because i have appealed.

I have uploaded the third PCN as i've searched high and low for the first ones but can't find them in the office. They all read exactly the same though except 2 have a slightly different contravention code that the other 7. That code is 53j on 7 PCN's and 53 on the remaining 2 but the wording is the same ' Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone'

The dates of the PCN's are as follows:

19/02/19 TUES @ 11:33 53J
20/02/19 WED @ 11:21 53J
22/02/19 FRI @ 12:32 53J
22/02/19 FRI @ 14:16 53
25/02/19 MON @ 11:01 53J
27/02/19 WED @ 09:54 53
01/03/19 FRI @ 10:48 53J
06/03/19 WED @ 10:11 53J
12/03/19 TUES @ 10:54 53J (PCN arrived yesterday, not yet appealed).

Also attached is my appeal letter which to be honest maybe worded in a way that i've shot myself in the foot because of the word 'occasion'. I sent the exact same appeal letter to appeal all of the PCN's

Thanks again,





Here is the notice of rejection showing all docs pertaining to the works being carried out at the stated address inc my appeal letter.

Thanks
cp8759
You need to show us the paperwork, I suggest you set up a folder on google drive or dropbox or similar, set up a folder for each penalty and in each folder upload the PCN (all sides of all pages), any representations you've sent and any response you received back, as well as the videos.

Also give us a link to the location on google street view.
PASTMYBEST
The PCN was there as a PDF a few minutes ago. There is a long time between the contravention date and the PCN issue date. Is it a lease vehicle?
DC1
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 13:55) *
You need to show us the paperwork, I suggest you set up a folder on google drive or dropbox or similar, set up a folder for each penalty and in each folder upload the PCN (all sides of all pages), any representations you've sent and any response you received back, as well as the videos.

Also give us a link to the location on google street view.



Hi,

Please forgive the speed at which i'm loading the docs, i wish i was more computer friendly !

As i mentioned, every PCN is worded in an identical manner, can i assume that i should upload each one because of the differences in the images?
I am looking into uploading the videos as we speak.

I have snipped out an ariel view of the area showing :

A - Where the images/videos were taken
B - The flat above the Greggs where the work was taking place
C - The place where i temporarily parked my vehicle, the side entrance to the flats above the shops and where the conversation took place between myself and the parking officer. Note : At no point did i enter what i consider to be a 'true' pedestrian road, namely Electric Ave, there are barriers preventing access.

Click to view attachmentThe closest postcode to the junction where my vehicle was filmed entering the restricted zone is SW9 8HX

Thanks again

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 14:12) *
The PCN was there as a PDF a few minutes ago. There is a long time between the contravention date and the PCN issue date. Is it a lease vehicle?



Yes, it is a contract hire vehicle.

Thanks

Hi, hopefully this has downloaded, this is the first video
DC1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B51mulVRYL...iew?usp=sharing

Hi all,

Hopefully this link works okay, these are all the videos. Strangely enough, the last PCN that i received yesterday didn't have video evidence. I will upload the photos.

Obviously all this took place a while ago and it had slipped my mind but during the dates of 22nd, 25th and 27th of Feb, the nearest 'official' loading bay was occupied all day with vehicles belonging to groundwork crews/diggers/cement mixers that were working on the junction of Brixton Road and Atlantic Ave. You can see the said loading bay in the top right hand side of the videos......it looks as if it was barriered off.
DC1
Apologies for the somewhat disjointed posts.

This is the first of the 2 rejection letters that i have received so far. It could be argued that i'm jumping the gun as maybe some or all of the remaining appeals will be accepted and the PCN's cancelled but i doubt it.

Thanks
Mad Mick V
IIRC the traffic order for Electric Avenue stipulated that drivers visiting an address there could pass the restriction signage. It'll be on a thread from a couple of years back (at least).

If that can be determined and the OP has job sheets for the dates in question that would be a winnable ground.

Otherwise the signage could be inadequate as with a number of successful cases.


Plus the photo shows the vehicle leaving--not passing a restriction sign.


EDIT---Here's the last one I can find--pick you own contravention!!!! Being in a Pedestrian Zone, Unloading during an unloading ban, driving down Electric Lane, turning left from Electric Avenue etc etc:-

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2546321

Mick
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:11) *
IIRC the traffic order for Electric Avenue stipulated that drivers visiting an address there could pass the restriction signage. It'll be on a thread from a couple of years back (at least).

If that can be determined and the OP has job sheets for the dates in question that would be a winnable ground.

Otherwise the signage could be inadequate as with a number of successful cases.


Plus the photo shows the vehicle leaving--not passing a restriction sign.


Mick


I've got this case that supports this contention

Case reference
2150044817
Appellant
Mohamed Moksed Alam
Authority
London Borough of Lambeth
VRM
KK57OUJ

PCN Details
PCN
LJ00362008
Contravention date
27 Nov 2014
Contravention time
15:11:00
Contravention location
Electric Lane
Penalty amount
GBP 130.00
Contravention
Failing to comply with pedestrian zone sign

Referral date


Decision Date
14 Mar 2015
Adjudicator
Francis LLoyd
Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
Mr Alam attended in person at the hearing of his appeal before me. He accepted that he had driven into a pedestrian zone on 27 November. He appealed on the grounds that he was driving a disabled passenger to an address in Electric Lane and produced a Booking Confirmation note confirming this.



The signage does not allow any exemptions for vehicles to enter Electric Lane. However, the Traffic Management Order does. Article 4(a) states that the prohibition does not apply to "a motor vehicle gaining access to or egress from any premises fronting upon or accessible from that length of Electric Lane which lies between its junction with Atlantic House and a point opposite the northern boundary of No 16 Electric Avenue, provided that the vehicle enters and leaves Electric Lane at its junction with Atlantic Road".



It is my understanding that the appellant was delivering a disabled passenger to an address in Electric Lane. The wording of the TMO is somewhat ambiguous, but I do not see why the phrase "gaining access to" cannot be construed as covering the situation of delivering a passenger to an address in that street.



I therefore allow the appeal.
DC1
Thank Mad Mick

I'm making a right pigs ear of uploading docs today, here's my appeal letter showing the official works order from the customer (Greggs PLC) and to back up the reason as to why i was visiting that site, our invoice for the works carried out and for the avoidance of doubt as to whether it was me or not. a snapshot of a plumbing/gas certificate i hold. Probably not needed but i thought i'd throw as much into the mix as i could.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mcvsGV_ui_...iew?usp=sharing

Mad Mick V
@PMB
I've amended my post to incude a 2016 TRO which might make that case obsolete.
Mick
DC1
Thanks Mick,

So, if i haven't misread what you've written, if the the only entrance to a property is via Electric Lane then a vehicle is allowed to access into the pedestrian zone via exemption Article 4a ? FYI, there is no access into the flat above Greggs via the shop that fronts onto Electric Avenue.

DC
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (DC1 @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:54) *
Thanks Mick,

So, if i haven't misread what you've written, if the the only entrance to a property is via Electric Lane then a vehicle is allowed to access into the pedestrian zone via exemption Article 4a ? FYI, there is no access into the flat above Greggs via the shop that fronts onto Electric Avenue.

DC


No they have amended the order to make the exemption time limited between 8 and 9 am and 4 and 5 pm.

We need to see the videos. One point that might win is if the photos show you exiting rather than entering and or we can look at the signage
DC1
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 18:13) *
QUOTE (DC1 @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:54) *
Thanks Mick,

So, if i haven't misread what you've written, if the the only entrance to a property is via Electric Lane then a vehicle is allowed to access into the pedestrian zone via exemption Article 4a ? FYI, there is no access into the flat above Greggs via the shop that fronts onto Electric Avenue.

DC


No they have amended the order to make the exemption time limited between 8 and 9 am and 4 and 5 pm.

We need to see the videos. One point that might win is if the photos show you exiting rather than entering and or we can look at the signage


Hi PMB

Here's the link to the videos https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B51mulVRYL...iew?usp=sharing

drive.google.com/file/d/0B51mulVRYL4Mc3RhcnRlcl9maWxl/view

I'll go into the photos and get them uploaded too,

Thanks
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (DC1 @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 18:32) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 18:13) *
QUOTE (DC1 @ Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 16:54) *
Thanks Mick,

So, if i haven't misread what you've written, if the the only entrance to a property is via Electric Lane then a vehicle is allowed to access into the pedestrian zone via exemption Article 4a ? FYI, there is no access into the flat above Greggs via the shop that fronts onto Electric Avenue.

DC


No they have amended the order to make the exemption time limited between 8 and 9 am and 4 and 5 pm.

We need to see the videos. One point that might win is if the photos show you exiting rather than entering and or we can look at the signage


Hi PMB

Here's the link to the videos https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B51mulVRYL...iew?usp=sharing

drive.google.com/file/d/0B51mulVRYL4Mc3RhcnRlcl9maWxl/view

I'll go into the photos and get them uploaded too,

Thanks


no telling me it does not exist
DC1
Just checked, 5 of the videos/images shows me leaving, not entering the restricted road.

As far as the law goes, wouldn't it simply be (correctly) assumed that because i'm coming out of the street then i must have gone in? Plus, to try and state anything to the contrary, wouldn't that make a mockery of my initial appeal statement?
DC1
Okay, sussed out how to upload everything.

I'll do PCN by PCN, here's the first.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14DkqecQJ4...1ji91jpfXWV4fgD

Thanks
cp8759
Add the paperwork to the various folders, we need all sides of all pages of each PCN. Redact your name and address only.
hcandersen
You have received NORs.

You must register your appeals.

OP, you were correct in what you implied earlier, and IMO this point trumps everything else, on the first day you entered with the conditional permission of a CEO which you did NOT consider was limited to the first instance but continued because of the unique aspects of your activities.

For subsequent PCNs, irrespective of their times, did you rely upon that permission AND did you comply with the conditions as expressed by the CEO on day 1 - you know whether you did or didn't, I don't?

IMO, this is your primary argument for the obvious reason that from what you've posted this was the ONLY reason you entered the area. Yes?

And the main argument for appeals as well as reps.
DC1
Thanks HCAnderson,

At this moment, i have only received NOR's for two of my appeals. As i mentioned, it could be that one or several of the PCN's could actually be cancelled but if they score the appeals in all the same way then i doubt it.

To be honest, my impression from the traffic officer is that if my reasons for entering the restricted zone were the same as my first (which they would be) then i would be okay, at the discretion of the officer of course. Obviously, i have since realised that what he said was irrelevant as in effect, i had already been nabbed so to speak by a camera operator.

If you look at it another way.............If he HAD made it clear from the get-go that even though it was fine by him but was likely that before i even parked my vehicle, i would have been captured by an enforcement camera then no one in their right mind would have gambled with the following 9 times!

To me, this almost boils down to the fact that either he knew that i would be caught by camera (entrapment??) or that he simply wasn't aware that the camera existed?
cp8759
We still need you to put the PCNs in your google drive folders.
DC1
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 22:26) *
We still need you to put the PCNs in your google drive folders.


Hi CP,

I will upload those later today,

Many thanks

DC
hcandersen
OP, if a CEO gives permission then providing any conditions are complied with then NO contravention occurs. This is a common exemption in every traffic order.

The camera saw what it saw. The CEO who reviewed the camera evidence knew nothing about your conversation.

Do not wait for replies to other reps before actioning the NORs, you need to register your appeals in time as the NORs arrive. State in the form that you anticipate that there might be up to ** appeals which are based upon the same facts and which you would wish to consolidate as further NORs are received.

Grounds: contravention did not occur; penalty exceeded the amount applicable ..........

Further info: You acted with the permission of a CEO which was given at ** on ** the date of the first incident and upon which you relied for all subsequent entries into the zone.

And post the first NOR you received, leaving in all dates and ensure it's the complete document from the authority's address on page 1 to the signature block at the end.
DC1
Morning HCA,

As requested, please see first PCN attached

Thanks
DC1
As expected, another 6 letters of rejection arrived today, none have been cancelled.
hcandersen
Not PCN, the NOR please.
cp8759
Put the NoRs in the google driver folders you've already set up.
DC1
Hi All,

Please see link to 2 of the NOR's

2 of the NOR's are worded as the top document, the rest are worded as the lower doc.

Thanks

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jUtEGFDEH..._T4PUw_0bduiVM5
cp8759
We need to see the rest of the pages with all the standard wording about how to pay or appeal, as any errors on the part of the council can make the NoR invalid. We don't ask to see documents in full just to be awkward.
DC1
Wasn't thinking anyone was being awkward, my lack of experience in fighting these led me to believe that all NOR docs would be the same,

Please see link to the 2 NOR's

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jUtEGFDEH..._T4PUw_0bduiVM5

Thanks

DC
PASTMYBEST
I see one error on both that has won in the past They define service as delivered. It is not service as regards this document is a legal term and is 2 working days after posting


https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtBHPhdJdppVqjuZ0A-5EbUin4AO
cp8759
QUOTE (DC1 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 21:17) *
Wasn't thinking anyone was being awkward, my lack of experience in fighting these led me to believe that all NOR docs would be the same,

Please see link to the 2 NOR's

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jUtEGFDEH..._T4PUw_0bduiVM5

Thanks

DC

Show us the other pages, I'm sure the NoR doesn't just stop with the words "Once payment is made...", we need to see what's printed on the back.
DC1
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 12:38) *
QUOTE (DC1 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 21:17) *
Wasn't thinking anyone was being awkward, my lack of experience in fighting these led me to believe that all NOR docs would be the same,

Please see link to the 2 NOR's

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jUtEGFDEH..._T4PUw_0bduiVM5

Thanks

DC

Show us the other pages, I'm sure the NoR doesn't just stop with the words "Once payment is made...", we need to see what's printed on the back.


The additional pages were uploaded on my post from yesterday,

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UCRSbef83...MJHCi-neZTBDSwT

Thanks

DC
cp8759
Fatally, they say they will increase the charge by 50% if no action is taken, this is a standard will / may issue. They do say they "may" serve a charge certificate, but in this day and age most people would pay online anyway, and would find themselves faced with a £195 charge. It cannot be a foregone conclusion that the charge will increase.

If I may suggest, given the number of PCNs involved, it may be worthwhile for you to put them on a spreadsheet as I have done here for another case: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dqf...yc14/edit#gid=0

Otherwise working out what's what becomes a bit of a nightmare. I can do it for you, but you'd need to tidy up your google drive folder first.
DC1
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 19:54) *
Fatally, they say they will increase the charge by 50% if no action is taken, this is a standard will / may issue. They do say they "may" serve a charge certificate, but in this day and age most people would pay online anyway, and would find themselves faced with a £195 charge. It cannot be a foregone conclusion that the charge will increase.

If I may suggest, given the number of PCNs involved, it may be worthwhile for you to put them on a spreadsheet as I have done here for another case: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dqf...yc14/edit#gid=0

Otherwise working out what's what becomes a bit of a nightmare. I can do it for you, but you'd need to tidy up your google drive folder first.


Many thanks CP,

Were you meaning put everything on a spreadsheet to make it clear to the E and TA ?

Also, would you say that i should push forward on the basis that the parking officer 'authorised' my entry into the restricted area ? There maybe other technicalities over wording etc on the docs but to me, they are clutching at straws.

Being brutally honest, what would you guess my chances are by pushing on with an appeal, obviously 9 x £65 is a lot better than 9 x £130?

OR

Is it worth me taking a trip up to the Lambeth town hall, try and speak to a PCN representatives and offer to settle this situation by paying let's say 3 or 4 of the penalties and i won't push forward with an outside appeal where they might win......or they might not?

Thanks

DC
cp8759
I suggested a spreadsheet to make everything clear to us, at the moment there's no way to see at a glance what the status is of your PCNs or what all the deadlines are (ok maybe I could work it out going through the whole thread, but that's not "at a glance").

The technical issues regarding the wording have won numerous times before, any will / may issue tends to go down well at the London Tribunals.

Here's what I suggest you do now, otherwise we'll never work out a coherent strategy:

Make a shared holder on google drive, call it PCNs, and give us the share link for it. Inside this folder, make a sub-folder for each PCN, and in each sub-folder put all the documents for each PCN (including representations, rejection letters, the video and so on).
DC1
Hi CP,

Have sent you a PM,

Many thanks

DC
cp8759
Well I've replied, put a link to the spreadsheet on here once it's done.
DC1
Hi Cp, for some reason, i can't upload the spreadsheet.

However, here's a copied pasted version.

vPCN NUMBER DATE/TIME OF CONTRAVENTION DATE OF PCN SERVICE DATE DATE OF NOR
*****0142 TUES 19/02/2019 11:33 8/4/2019 10/4/2019 4/6/2019
*****3639 WED 20/02/2019 11:21 8/4/2019 10/4/2019 4/6/2019
*****9384 FRI 22/02/2019 12.32 14/5/2019 16/5/2019 10/6/2019
*****9566 FRI 22/02/2019 14:06 14/5/2019 16/5/2019 10/6/2019
*****7509 MON 25/02/2019 11:01 14/5/2019 16/5/2019 10/6/2019
*****2611 WED 27/02/2019 9:54 14/5/2019 16/5/2019 10/6/2019
*****8039 FRI 01/03/2019 10:48 14/052019 16/5/2019 10/6/2019
*****033A WED 06/03/2019 10:11 10/5/2019 13/5/2019 10/6/2019
*****9327 TUES 12/03/2019 10:54 06/6/2019 08/6/2019 NOT RECEIVED
cp8759
Just go to http://spreadsheets.google.com and make one there, then post the share link for it. There's no point in redacting the PCN numbers to be honest.
DC1
Hi, had a hiccup with the sharing, here it is now, thanks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r5-...dit?usp=sharing
cp8759
So I made my own version: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y9K...dit?usp=sharing

I would recommend you upload all the paperwork related to each PCN into their respective folders here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1E1D...CsO?usp=sharing (you will need to request edit access from me)

We can then check everything for flaws and construct your appeal accordingly, fortunately we have a bit of time to do this. We know from previous cases that there's likely to be different flaws in different NoRs.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 26 Jun 2019 - 16:28) *
So I made my own version: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y9K...dit?usp=sharing

I would recommend you upload all the paperwork related to each PCN into their respective folders here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1E1D...CsO?usp=sharing (you will need to request edit access from me)

We can then check everything for flaws and construct your appeal accordingly, fortunately we have a bit of time to do this. We know from previous cases that there's likely to be different flaws in different NoRs.


That make life easy now to see the NOR's and at least 1 PCN.

Have representations against the last PCn been made yet?
DC1
Thanks guys, i've tried to request edit through as someone i know suggest i can but i must be missing the obvious. Can you let me know how to do this please.

Yep, appeal against last PCN was made yesterday,

Thanks again
cp8759
I've sent you a PM
DC1
Hi, have uploaded details

Thanks
cp8759
We don't need the tribunal appeal form, but we're missing the 2nd page of the NoR for LJ11113639, LJ11119566, LJ11127509, LJ11132611, LJ11138039 and LJ1115033A, we need to see these are your strongest ground of appeal will likely be found on that page. Even if you think they're the same, it's better to let us check as the slightest variation in wording can make all the difference.
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