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cocob1805
Hi guys

I thought it was worth a shot to see if anyone could help me.

I have made a very big blunder here in the fact I moved address' and didn't notify the DVLA until approximately a month ago (feb/march time) of my new address.

Yesterday I received a letter from JBW regarding a contravention committed on 20.10.2018 which was 'entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited'. The fine is £278 and JBW have now found me at my new address and stated an application for Warrant of Control has been issued to my new address.

I spoke to Islington Council who told me to fill out form PE2 (Application to file a statutory declaration out of time) and they also mentioned I don't need a solicitor to sign it's fine without? Not sure about that...

In the meantime I decided to ring around the local councils to see if I had any other horrors awaiting me and unfortunately I did. Hackney Council issued a fine on 28.01.2019 for 52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles). I drove through at 18.48 and restrictions end at 7pm unfortunately. Fine is up to £200 and about to go to bailiffs.

Both tickets were a complete shock, I didn't know I had made any driving errors - none previously!

These are the facts to make it clear;

1. I moved out of the address that has the missing post in November 2018
2. I moved to my family house in the North temporarily and didn't alert the DVLA as it was left at home (only proof I have of this is my driving license which has always been registered to that address, I also have insurance doc with that address)
3. I moved back to London to my new address and carelessly didn't update the log book until around march time. I was prompted by my car being clamped, due to being untaxed (even though the tax is free of charge) another mistake - I can truly say my disorganised lesson has been learnt and very expensively.
4. The problem is one of the tickets is issued on 28.01.2019, so using the moving excuse twice is going to be a long shot! Do they compare cases?

I understand this is all my expensive mistakes, although wondered if there is any advice (fairly urgent) that you could help in any way to bring my costs down and how to potentially have a chance of the TEC accepting my dec.

I appreciate any help or advice! Would be amazing if I could at least get it back to PCN stage!

Thank you.

Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 16:09) *
In the meantime I decided to ring around the local councils to see if I had any other horrors awaiting me and unfortunately I did. Hackney Council issued a fine on 28.01.2019 for 52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles). I drove through at 18.48 and restrictions end at 7pm unfortunately. Fine is up to £200 and about to go to bailiffs.

For that one.
Phone TEC first thing tomorrow and ask if you are 'in time' to file PE3 only.
I presume you mean £203.

0300 123 1059
Neil B
For the other one, what is the 'docref' date on your new V5C.

V busy at mo but I'll respond whenever I can -- and I'm sure others will too.
cocob1805
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 19:08) *
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 16:09) *
In the meantime I decided to ring around the local councils to see if I had any other horrors awaiting me and unfortunately I did. Hackney Council issued a fine on 28.01.2019 for 52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles). I drove through at 18.48 and restrictions end at 7pm unfortunately. Fine is up to £200 and about to go to bailiffs.

For that one.
Phone TEC first thing tomorrow and ask if you are 'in time' to file PE3 only.
I presume you mean £203.

0300 123 1059



So the 28.01 offence has until 24 May to send the PE3 form only.
Unfortunately my V5 doc has the reference date 02.04.2019 - later than I thought...

Plan of action is to make an appointment with County Court asap and gather evidence, just unsure of the grounds I go on..
cp8759
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 11:16) *
Plan of action is to make an appointment with County Court asap and gather evidence, just unsure of the grounds I go on..

Your ground would be that you never received the Penalty Charge Notice, for an in-time application you don't need to explain why that is.
Neil B
And for the JBW one it's not 'grounds' but explaining why you are late.
Your chances of success with that one don't look good, from what you've told us.

Paying £278, if they'll still accept it, might be your best option, before they add on
another £235.

If you prefer to fight it, you might have a chance if we had some actual dates on any of these >
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 16:09) *
1. I moved out of the address that has the missing post in November 2018
2. I moved to my family house in the North temporarily and didn't alert the DVLA as it was left at home (only proof I have of this is my driving license which has always been registered to that address, I also have insurance doc with that address)
3. I moved back to London to my new address and carelessly didn't update the log book until around march time.

cocob1805
Sorry -

I moved out of the Islington address to the northern address on 3rd November 2018 and bought a new insurance policy on the 4th November 2018 - I have the insurance certificate? I have an email sent to Islington council to say I'd no longer be responsible for council tax...

I moved back to London address on 20.01.2019 - I have an agency agreement for my property.

I'm unsure what my reasons would be for the 28.01.2019 ticket other than I was careless and that would be rejected? Or do I just send the PE3 form with my V5c form, tenancy agreement and hope for the best?

Is it worth to fight the bailiff one in or throw the towel in as the last thing I want is any more charges.

The 28.01.2019 is a notorious one and very unclear it would be a real shame if I couldn't appeal - see article below;

https://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/hackn...n-ban-1-5646504



cocob1805
Can I confirm with a PE3 only do you need to send evidence?

Also, I have another to add...

I received a parking ticket in October 2018 and the first appeal was rejected. I kept in touch with Tower Hamlets over phone and they said I should receive the NTO late December 2018 of course it went to the old address.

I have phoned TEC and they don't even have the case yet, is it worth sending the PE3 with this one, currently at £120 or do I just pay this, pay the £278 and hope that I get given a lifeline, although unlikely on the £201 one?

Thank you.
Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 17:42) *
I'm unsure what my reasons would be for the 28.01.2019 ticket other than I was careless and that would be rejected? Or do I just send the PE3 form with my V5c form, tenancy agreement and hope for the best?

No, you're not getting this are you.
That one is 'in time' and it's an automatic reset to PCN stage.
You just tick the box on PE3 'Did not recieve PCN' and if you insist on writing anything in 'reasons'
it's just 'due to a change of address.

On the other one 3/11 move vs 20/10 contravention is good; you could never have received the PCN anyway,
even if you had updated DVLA promptly.

BUT we don't know where you stand. The date of the JBW Notice of Enforcement and any deadline
they set?
Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 18:07) *
Can I confirm with a PE3 only do you need to send evidence?

Answered at 18.20

QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 18:07) *
Also, I have another to add...

I received a parking ticket in October 2018 and the first appeal was rejected. I kept in touch with Tower Hamlets over phone and they said I should receive the NTO late December 2018 of course it went to the old address.

I have phoned TEC and they don't even have the case yet, is it worth sending the PE3 with this one, currently at £120 or do I just pay this,

You can't PE3 before it's registered at TEC.

You need to start a separate thread for that one or this one will be very confusing.


QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 18:07) *
currently at £120

It can't be.
Please get a grip with accurate amounts.
cocob1805
It’s definitely accurate? Please see attached plus I spoke to the council today...
Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 20:00) *
It’s definitely accurate? Please see attached plus I spoke to the council today...

Ah, yes, my mistake.
Was the original penalty £40/80 ?
cocob1805
Indeed, it was 40
Neil B
Then start a new thread for that one.

-----

On the £278 one
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 18:20) *
BUT we don't know where you stand. The date of the JBW Notice of Enforcement and any deadline
they set?

cocob1805
I can do that.

I phoned the councils for some more info on dates the letters were sent and they informed be as follows;

Islington PCN (now with JBW @ £278)
NTO - sent 31.10.2018
Charge Certificate - sent 03.12.2018
Order of Recovery - sent 13.02.2018

Hackney PCN (with TEC @ £203 until 24.05 which will then move to JBW)
NTO - sent 01.02.2019
Charge Certificate - sent 12.03.2019
Order of Recovery - sent 23.04.2019 - now this one is odd because I had definitely updated my address with the DVLA then and I never received it?

Not sure if this helps me at all.

Thanks.

Just letting you know I replied in case it doesn't notify. Apologies first time navigating this site.
Neil B
I'll try again.
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 20:38) *
On the £278 one
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 18:20) *
BUT we don't know where you stand. The date of the JBW Notice of Enforcement and any deadline
they set?



cocob1805
The warrant has not yet been granted on my new address, apologies for delay I haven’t been received notifications.

As it stands they have applied for warrant on my new address.

I’ve managed to read all the comments I did not see before for some reason and understand everything - thanks.

Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 22:32) *
The warrant has not yet been granted on my new address, apologies for delay I haven’t been received notifications.

As it stands they have applied for warrant on my new address.

Mate; I don't ask questions for no reason: You're ignoring a risk.

The warrant is irrelevant and is likely to have been changed inside 48 hours from when you heard that.

Show us the JBW correspondence pls.
hcandersen
OP, you've lost me:

You posted:

I moved back to London to my new address and carelessly didn't update the log book until around march time.

and then:

Hackney PCN (with TEC @ £203 until 24.05 which will then move to JBW)
NTO - sent 01.02.2019
Charge Certificate - sent 12.03.2019
Order of Recovery - sent 23.04.2019 - now this one is odd because I had definitely updated my address with the DVLA then and I never received it?


The authority use the address supplied by DVLA for the NTO for every other notice unless informed to the contrary.

Feb precedes 'around march time', so nothing unusual about this.
cocob1805
I’d received my v5c back by then and dated 02.04 is what I was referring to.

But if they only check for NTO that makes sense
cocob1805
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 23:20) *
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 22:32) *
The warrant has not yet been granted on my new address, apologies for delay I haven’t been received notifications.

As it stands they have applied for warrant on my new address.

Mate; I don't ask questions for no reason: You're ignoring a risk.

The warrant is irrelevant and is likely to have been changed inside 48 hours from when you heard that.

Show us the JBW correspondence pls.



Hey Neil

Sorry if I'm not being clear, I don't have the correspondence until this evening, it's at home. Although I have contacted the bailiffs and looking at my account online they only have a warrant issued for my old address - does this mean anything or not? My account is still staying at £278 - I can pay tonight or have the declaration sent tomorrow with signatures before 4pm.

All the info I give to you is up to date from that moment as far as I'm aware. I'd checked online that very moment - thanks
cocob1805
To add there was no deadline on the JBW just simply stating they had applied for a warrant at my new address but will upload this eve

QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 23:20) *
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 22:32) *
The warrant has not yet been granted on my new address, apologies for delay I haven’t been received notifications.

As it stands they have applied for warrant on my new address.

Mate; I don't ask questions for no reason: You're ignoring a risk.

The warrant is irrelevant and is likely to have been changed inside 48 hours from when you heard that.

Show us the JBW correspondence pls.



QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:01) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 23:20) *
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Sun, 19 May 2019 - 22:32) *
The warrant has not yet been granted on my new address, apologies for delay I haven’t been received notifications.

As it stands they have applied for warrant on my new address.

Mate; I don't ask questions for no reason: You're ignoring a risk.

The warrant is irrelevant and is likely to have been changed inside 48 hours from when you heard that.

Show us the JBW correspondence pls.



Hey Neil

Sorry if I'm not being clear, I don't have the correspondence until this evening, it's at home. Although I have contacted the bailiffs and looking at my account online they only have a warrant issued for my old address - does this mean anything or not? My account is still staying at £278 - I can pay tonight or have the declaration sent tomorrow with signatures before 4pm.

All the info I give to you is up to date from that moment as far as I'm aware. I'd checked online that very moment - thanks



QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:12) *
To add there was no deadline on the JBW just simply stating they had applied for a warrant at my new address but will upload this eve




When I spoke to them on the phone they said I would receive a letter with a date and time of visit and I have not yet received that mail
Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:01) *
I can pay tonight or have the declaration sent tomorrow with signatures before 4pm.

What would your declaration say?
I can see it's a bit unlucky the PCN was due to arrive on just the day before you moved, maybe later.
But your failure to update V5 promptly could weigh against you unless you wrote somewhat carefully.


QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:18) *
When I spoke to them on the phone they said I would receive a letter with a date and time of visit and I have not yet received that mail

I doubt that means they'll be making an appointment !
Such a letter is more likely to add a further £235 fee.
cocob1805
OK - I was under the impression from speaking with them on the phone and the helpline that a pre-warning on when they are coming is compulsory...

Is the £235 added before they come to your door?

Well, I can only say the truth that I temporarily moved to my family home which turned longer than expected, where the car was kept and didn't see it as essential to update the address until I moved back to London.

This is the reason why I came on the forum to ask for help with this declaration. If there is no chance I would just rather pay now, I am very relieved the PE3 form only means the other fine will go back to PCN stage which I wasn't expecting.

Can you clarify it would be the £130 and chance to appeal stage pls?

QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:04) *
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:01) *
I can pay tonight or have the declaration sent tomorrow with signatures before 4pm.

What would your declaration say?
I can see it's a bit unlucky the PCN was due to arrive on just the day before you moved, maybe later.
But your failure to update V5 promptly could weigh against you unless you wrote somewhat carefully.


QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 11:18) *
When I spoke to them on the phone they said I would receive a letter with a date and time of visit and I have not yet received that mail

I doubt that means they'll be making an appointment !
Such a letter is more likely to add a further £235 fee.



Do you have any suggestion how I can write carefully? Thanks
Neil B
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:12) *
OK - I was under the impression from speaking with them on the phone and the helpline that a pre-warning on when they are coming is compulsory...

Is the £235 added before they come to your door?

Difficult to tell. All bailiffs interpret differently.
The Regs are here > https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/contents/made

5.—
(b)the enforcement stage, which comprises all activities relating to enforcement from the first attendance at the premises in relation to the instructions up to but not including the commencement of the sale or disposal stage;

Does seem to confirm attendance is necessary.

QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:12) *
I am very relieved the PE3 form only means the other fine will go back to PCN stage which I wasn't expecting.

Can you clarify it would be the £130 and chance to appeal stage pls?

Better.
£65 discount on new PCN, or fight.

QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:12) *
Do you have any suggestion how I can write carefully? Thanks

I understand your point about "temporary", I just don't think it would work.
Islington might even forget to object to your OOT but I can't recommend anything that risks your money.
cocob1805
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:35) *
QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:12) *
OK - I was under the impression from speaking with them on the phone and the helpline that a pre-warning on when they are coming is compulsory...

Is the £235 added before they come to your door?

Difficult to tell. All bailiffs interpret differently.
The Regs are here > https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/contents/made

Thanks

5.—
(b)the enforcement stage, which comprises all activities relating to enforcement from the first attendance at the premises in relation to the instructions up to but not including the commencement of the sale or disposal stage;

Does seem to confirm attendance is necessary.

QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:12) *
I am very relieved the PE3 form only means the other fine will go back to PCN stage which I wasn't expecting.

Can you clarify it would be the £130 and chance to appeal stage pls?

Better.
£65 discount on new PCN, or fight.

Well this is very good news! I believe with this one I would have a chance to get written off, with the help of a new thread!

QUOTE (cocob1805 @ Mon, 20 May 2019 - 17:12) *
Do you have any suggestion how I can write carefully? Thanks

I understand your point about "temporary", I just don't think it would work.
Islington might even forget to object to your OOT but I can't recommend anything that risks your money.


Right, I see. I thought the decision was purely down to the TEC...
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