Hello all,

I’m new here and have tried to look through these forums before posting so apologies if this ‘another’ one of these.
Firstly I am talking about my partner’s vehicle which I was driving on the day in question.

Timeline.
29th April 2018 completed on house and moved.
9 May 2018 - PCN issued on windscreen by Leicestershire CC (Harborough District)
Overstayed marked bay by 13 mins (observed 1433-1646) - this got lost/forgotten with aftermath of house move
12 June 2018 Notice to owner sent to old address (we did not receive this despite us collecting post from old address)
(All of the above info has been obtained by contacting council today, (7 May 2019 to find out what this is about)
27 June 2018 V5 sent to DVLA to change address
July 2018 - Still collecting post from old address no correspondence of PCN
August 2018 - V5 returned from DVLA with new address dated 31/7/2018
6 Nov 2018 - Court issued Warrant to recover unpaid debt? - sent to old address (not received by us) and no warning, summonses, or other court papers were received by us as sent to old address.
8 Nov 2018 - Debt collection handed case by court to recover.
9 Nov 2018 - Debt collection wrote to old address to recover debt.
5 Dec 2018 - Debt collection attended old address to enforce warrant.
Dec 2018 - May 2019 - Tracing agent employed to find correct address.
2 May 2019 - Tracing agent found current address (presumably from DVLA) and Debt collection wrote to us at correct address.
7 May 2019 - Letter received to new address from Debt collection agency stating enforcement process commenced with a ‘notice of enforcement’ see attached for warrant issued on 6 Nov 2018

I have today contacted the Council and given them correct address, they have suspended action for 7 days while we get forms to TEC. Spoke to TEC who have sent me T7 & T9 forms. The TEC also informed me a warrant was issued on 6 Nov 2018 to old address. I have provided them with correct address. They have said that at this stage they are just point of contact and that no action is being taken by them at this stage.
I have requested original PCN/photos from Council and awaiting response.
I have contacted Debt collection agent to explain situation. They have put case on hold until next week pending me contacting them again for further updates.

I do not contest the original PCN, with the stress of moving and my then 1 yo daughter’s birthday (today) this was forgotten about and although the V5 was sent off in a reasonable time to DVLA following our move all subsequent correspondence, including an initial letter from debt collection agents in DATe have been sent to an old address, that until July of last year the DVLA has as the correct address and until August of last year I was collecting post from.
All of the above info has been collected today form the tree different sources, Council, TEC and collection agent.

Where do I stand?
Shall I just pay the fee and walk away?
Do I pay the original PCN and challenge the additional fees added on by the Debt collection firm as they were sent to incorrect address?
Where do I stand with the warrant being sent to an old address?

Any help and guidance is greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Solidsound.

... apologies for poor spelling at times, trying to type on phone was hard work!

... apologies for poor spelling at times, trying to type on phone was hard work!

Procedurally the only options to you are to pay and walk away, pay and submit TEs or just submit TEs.

Realistically, your chances of convincing TEC that none of notices arrived and that you are not to blame are zero.

What could have happened?

a. The notices were not properly addressed due to the authority's error; or
b. The notices were not properly addressed because of DVLA's error; or
c. The notices were properly addressed but you had given DVLA the wrong address for your old address.

You have not suggested c, therefore a or b must apply, unless they were delivered and you missed them. You have not suggested that a third party had access to your mail.

So if you submit an OOT, then you must require the authority, should they oppose, to supply TEC with evidence - too often all an authority does is to merely state that they have used the correct address.

We can help draft your OOT.

Extra procedurally, you could complain to the council's 'section 151 officer', see below:

The S151 Officer plays a key role in helping the organisation balance local service needs with corporate interests whilst ensuring compliance with all financial, statutory and constitutional requirements. High standards of professional practice and governance must also be observed in discharging those duties and responsibilities on behalf of the Council and local tax payers.

According to you, the authority are knowingly demanding payment from you pursuant to an invalid warrant i.e. it does not carry the mandatory details regarding validity because it is not issued to your address.

But we need to see the notice before getting too gung-ho on this point.

I don't think TEC, a District Judge or the authority will consider 2 months a "reasonable time" in which to submit a change of address to DVLA.

Thanks hcandersen.

A third party did have access to our mail - The Asst. Chief Constable at Leicester Police - the tenant after us and from whom I collected our mail initially and I have no reason to believe he tampered with our mail (it is a new estate and mail does go missing a lot), but he is happy to write something to the effect that I collected our mail regularly and that often his post went missing too. He moved out in September after a short lease and the incoming tenant after that had no reason to keep anything addressed to us as, by then, everything had been transferred to new address so he binned or returned post - we have had no dealings with them.

As I said before, I'm not contesting the PCN just the fact that despite the DVLA records having been update in July 2018, and I accept this is AFTER the PCN, how a NIP, or court summons can be issued in, say, Sept or Oct (I'm guessing) to the wrong address, for it then go to court and then a judgement be made against us even though we can prove that we never received these docs in Sept or Oct because they were sent to an old address that we vacated 6 months previously - surely it is unreasonable to expect postal redirections much beyond a few months.

Anyway, that said if the general feeling is just pay up, then fine. We have not tried to run from this and until this morning had no idea it had gone so far. I just feel that somewhere that must be a law or rule that says the court must serve the papers to the RK and not just the last know address - surely that isn't right, especially when the the DVLA had, by that point, up to date address details, surely there has been a failure of due dilligence on both the Council, Court and Debt collection agency?

I would welcome any help filling out the OOT, thank you.

All I have, in terms of documents issued, is what I have attached to this thread which we received this morning. We have not been served any other correspondance to the new address although I expect that will change now I have given out the new details. I don't have a copy of the warrant - would I contact TEC for that?

TIA - Solidsound.




Ok. Thanks spaceman.

How much is the bailiff currently asking? and any deadline?

Neil B £393.00 in total at the moment - there is an attachment on my original post that gives a bit of a breakdown.

£83 original PCN
£75 Becuase it went to Debt collection (after Court)
£235 because Debt collectors turned up on the doorstep of old address in December 2018.




... sorry and dedline is 23.59 on 11/05/2019 - although they have agreed to suspend the case for a week, so I'm no sure where that leaves me with that deadline.

Yeah sorry, I'd seen it after asking.

At that point it's worth trying an OOT application.

The fact you knew you'd had a PCN on the vehicle weighs against you but the ACC's
statement might help.




None of those things.
The system is automatic - debt gets registered = you owe.

The warnings missed were Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery.
The Council can only use the address they are originally given.

Ok, fair enough - I'm not going to persue this if I have little chance of success. Do you think it is worth doing the OOT or should I just admit defeat and walk away? (and pay up)

See my comment regarding 'Bogsy' in post #11 of
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=127663

--- where the poster has less going for him/her than you do.

Don't ask, don't get.

Thanks Neil B.. noted! I'll give it a go then. I'll ask the ACC to draft the letter for me in the meantime. Can I ask for some help with filling out the OOT please?

Only a few on here have done this, Neil B is probably your best bet or you could contact Sheila at: -

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

Small fee payable for preparing the OOT.

You'll need ACC's statement quite quickly.

On TE7.
Firstly understand what it is.

The final noticed missed, OfR, allowed you to make a TE9 witness statement, in a limited time, stating no PCN or NtO received.
Reset is then automatic --- but you are beyond that limited time.

So TE7 is very specific: A request to file TE9 late, explaining why you couldn't before.

Bearing that in mind, you 'did not receive the Notice to Owner or any subsequent notices'.

-- due to moving -- attach evidence.

-- for which you updated DVLA.*

-- arrangements made to pass on mail, etc.


* I disagree with post #3, in part. DJs have been known to accept longer than two months as still
an understandable delay in updating, considering the stress and work involved in moving.

You must not lie but you don't necessarily have to incriminate yourself.


Draft something for our input.

File your OOT.

IMO, you either did not check your mail properly or we're being led up the garden path. But I was not there and you were.

If the ACC values their pension then they'd be wise to be guarded as regards their comments and to not embellish what they know to be be true.

Thanks for this Neill B. I have contacted ACC and made the request. I'll look through all of this today and draft something to post here for review - thanks.

I also don't agree with post #3, but I'm not here to argue, just work out what might be the best thing to do and I appreciate your input.

IMO, you're looking at the wrong issue.

The only procedural issue at this point is why you did not file your witness statement in time.

To know the answer to this we need to know the date the OfR was issued.

And we don't.

Get back to the council and fill in this gap pl.

Your argument depends on the response. Although an authority has no obligation to check with DVLA other than when preparing to issue a NTO, if DVLA updated your details before the OfR was issued then this is a stronger argument than if they did so afterwards.

Date please.

And also confirm the address on the extant warrant.

Hcandersen
EDIT


Order for Recovery was sent out on 21 Sept 2018 - I had until the 12 October 2018 to submit a response. The date the PCN debt recovery was filed with TEC was 20 Sept 2018.

DVLA had updated their records on 31 July 2018 (see attachment on my very first post).

Address on warrant is old address (although I do not have a copy) will contact Council now and try and get hold of it.

Edit
Just spoke with Council; they confirmed above dates and also that TE3 & TE9 were sent to old address. They are going to email a copy to me now. They also explained that they can only request info on RK once and that was done on 9 June 2018.

I have had confirmation from Bailiff firm that until 2 May 2019, even they were working off old address supplied by Council despite being able to do their own DVLA lookup. A tracing company was employed to locate us and returned our new address to Bailiff on 2 May 2019 - the same date of the letter we received as attached on my first post.

Just for tidiness and clarity.

Nope. TEC only know the registration date, not when councils issue OfRs, which they have 15 days to do.
Which is why HCA said to ask the council.



What do you want it for? Probably only exists electronically anyway.

Council have now been contacted. - see edite post above.


.. and so I have a copy of it, when it was dated and the address it was sent to. - I really am being honest when I say I didn't have it to start with.

You keep making assumptions, effectively telling us how things work and on matters of little importance.

It isn't 'sent' anywhere. They address is where the bailiff may enforce.

Focus on the OOT.

Forgive me for not understanding that these things are of little importance. I don't know this and I don't know how all this works. I have been asked to provide the date and address, so the logical thing to do IMHO is to get a copy - I am trying to provide as much info when requested as I can.

Back to the OOT ...

Don't worry.
But nobody asked the date of the warrant -- and it's in your opening post. 6th November.

Yes I realise now .. request was date of the OfR which is what I have requested a copy of and address of the warrant. My bad!

The issues for the OOT and how to put these in such a way as to ensure that TEC accept your witness statement out of time even when opposed by the council.

You moved on 29 April 2018;
NTO issued 12 June;
OfR issued 21 Sept;

How much weight should you put on your claim that none of the notices i.e. NTO, CC and OfR were actually delivered to your old address? I'm not sure.

You posted:
As I said before, I'm not contesting the PCN just the fact that despite the DVLA records having been update in July 2018, and I accept this is AFTER the PCN, how a NIP, or court summons can be issued in, say, Sept or Oct (I'm guessing) to the wrong address, for it then go to court and then a judgement be made against us even though we can prove that we never received these docs in Sept or Oct because they were sent to an old address that we vacated 6 months previously - surely it is unreasonable to expect postal redirections much beyond a few months.

You would only have needed redirection for 6 weeks i.e. until the NTO plopped on your mat at your new address having been redirected. You would then have notified the council of your new address which they would then have been obliged to use. So 'a few months' was all that was needed.

Just a couple more details:
The notice from the enforcement agents has not been posted but we must see it.

Why?

Because IMO their reputation is at risk if they serve a formal enforcement notice knowing that there is not a valid extant warrant. Which makes me wonder whether it is a valid notice and if not this changes the time dynamics of your OOT.

Also, the period(s) during which your old address was occupied. After all, you would not have been able to gain unassisted access to it, would you? Was it rented or owned? If rented, then the letting agent could and would have visited and possibly dumped any mail along with the freebie newspapers and circulars: wading through piles of paper behind the front door tends not to enhance a property's market value!

What would be classed as sufficient evidence to prove I moved to the new address?

Hello.

I have evidence from the tenant about the postal arrangements, the purchase of the new house in April (Register of Title Deed and original Solicitor confirmation letter of purchase) and the V5 with the correct address dated 31 July 2018.

Here is my draft for the TE9 - all criticism and suggestions welcome..

Reason(s):

I have never received a Notice to Owner form Leicestershire Council and I was not made aware of any subsequent correspondence from the Council, Courts or Bailiffs until 3 May 2019.

On 23rd April 2018 I bought a house with my partner and we started moving from 24 Freshman Way (a rented property) to my new address. We completed the move on 6 May 2018. (Enc. Evidence document A & B)

On 6 May 2018 the keys of the rented property were handed to the new incoming tenant by my partner and an arrangement was made for them to contact us if any post came.
We did not have unassisted access to the old property after 6 May 2018 and were reliant on the new tenant to retain our post and notify us. I have included a statement from them confirming this as evidence. (Enc. Evidence document C).

On the 9th May when the contravention occurred I was still very much in the throes of house moving stresses whilst being a Mum to my, then one year old, Daughter and twelve year old Son. The PCN was misplaced and ultimately fell out of my mind. I do not contest the PCN.

Between 6 May 2018 and July 2018, and on a few occasions, we were contacted by the new tenant to collect post that had been sent to the old address. Contact was made with the various originators for my address to be updated.

I did not take delivery of any letters from Harborough District Council or Leicestershire County Council for parking related matters.

We did collect a confirmation letter from Harborough District Council, accidentally sent to the old address in May, acknowledging the move to the new address and detailing the amount of Council Tax refund due.

Around mid-June I sent my V5 document to the DVLA to be updated and this was returned around 2 August. The V5 shows a date of 31 July 2018 (Enc. Evidence D)

By July 2018 all relevant organisations had been notified of my new address and as such the calls from the tenant at the rented property about our post had stopped - they moved out of the property in October 2018.
I have since found out that new tenants moved in on 18 October 2018 and I can only assume that any letting agents involved at the that time or the new tenants themselves may have disposed of post and junk mail not addresses to them.

On 3 May 2019 I received a Notice of Enforcement letter from a Bailiff firm to my new address. I was unaware of the reason for this and immediately telephoned them. They recommended contacting the Council which I did the same day and they confirmed to me that although they had a linked address for me of my new residence (presumably from the Council Tax refund), they could only write to the address returned on the DVLA search carried out in June. They advised me to contact the Court, which I also did the same day, in order to obtain forms as the process had gone too far for them intervene.

I was completely unaware of all action taken by the Council and I did not receive any formal notification from either the Council or the Courts that I was facing prosecution. These documents had been sent to an incorrect address for me including in November 2018 - six months following my move and four months following the update of my V5 address details.
Having had numerous conversations with the Bailiff firm I have since found out that a warrant was issued for me at my old address too. Bailiffs also attended that same outdated address on 5 December 2018 to discharge the warrant and were met by the newest occupants who explained they had only moved in on 18 October 2018.

I believe that since being contacted on 3 May 2019 by the Enforcement firm, I have acted in good faith and with the best intentions to notify all relevant parties of my correct address and to deal with this matter generally.
I do not believe I should be charged fees by third party companies to attend an old address when it was in their power to check that it was not only correct, but current.
I also believe the DVLA had been notified of my address change within a reasonable time following my house move and that I did not knowingly or deliberately delay updating any party with my new address details including the DVLA and the Council.

Facts: -
- you received the PCN but ignored it
- around 28+ days after the PCN was issued the council used their on-line facility to obtain name and address details from DVLA
- when council used this on-line facility your V5C stll had the old address.
- sometime between council getting the address from DVLA and issuing Notice to Owner/Charge Certificate/OfR, you updated your V5
- the council sent a Notice to Owner and all subsequent documents to the same address, they have no legal duty to request the address more than once.
- after no response to any of the statutory documents the council instructed debt recovery agents/ bailiffs after nothing was received to the Order for Recovery, (payment or Statutory Declaration)
- bailiffs find where you are. Their livelihood depends on being hard-working and diligent

So your OOT has to overcome the invariable objection by the council that they sent all the docs to the address on the V5. They will object to the OOT unless you can somehow square it with them not to object, but you might have to pay the £100 for a County Court judge review if TEC refuse your OOT after a council objection. Personally, if I were that judge, I'd be sympathetic, but I am not that judge !!

I'm so short of time so can't help much.
As Incandescent said, you have to clearly convey the message you were reasonably diligent (and you have a bit)
as difficult as that is.
You're making an effort and we can only hope for the best.

Your draft?
Even if LCC felt in a helpful, lenient mood, noone is going to want to read all that waffle, full of superfluous words
and even whole paragraphs.
I can hardly criticise since I'm hopeless at writing concisely myself.

I'll make some observations >

Firstly, I hope you mean TE7 ?





All of the red and probably more, could come out, to my mind. Others might disagree.

Blue is suggested changes/additions.

You might consider that 'I first became aware of -----' should be your opening?

Other statements might benefit from bullet points ?


It's not easy, we know.

Personally, I don't think your case is unreasonable or without merit --- but I'm not the one
making decisions.

Thanks NeilB, that's really helpful. I'll make your suggested ammendments and aim to get this off this afternoon unless anyone else chips in... and yes, I meant TE7

Incandescent - I do not disagree with most of the statements you make except the one about the Enforcement firm - I do not believe they have been dilligent or hardworking in this case.
How can I '..somehow square it with the Council to not object'? given that they will be left with a bill for the bailiff attendance if they don't? I can't see how I can get around that, but I welcome your suggestions.

Looking at this another way.

Procedurally it is irrelevant to whom the PCN was issued and when because that person is not liable.

Only the 'owner' - a legal concept unrelated to the actual owner who might even have been the driver - is liable.

As 'owner' and unrelated to any PCN - because you'd forgotten about it- you notified DVLA of your change of address in mid-June; the NTO was issued on 12 June.

THIS IS THE ISSUE, a few days.

Although the authority do not have a duty to recheck addresses, they do have a duty to serve documents on the owner. Where is it written that they can blithely choose to ignore the fact that the addressee has not contacted them.

For the sake of a couple of days - and it is only a couple of days because TEC would normally accept OOT applications when DVLA had been advised but not actually processed the request to change RK details - you are now being asked to pay £***.

So, where do you start your application at the PCN, at your move or when you notified DVLA?

I'm now inclined towards the last date.


On *** I moved home and made arrangements with the new occupant to forward mail or notify me to collect.

I notified DVLA of my updated registered keeper details on ****.

Unbeknown to me, the authority had issued a NTO on 18 June and despite the fact that the new occupant was in residence I was not notified by them. My subsequent enquiries, see attached statement, show that neither the NTO nor any subsequent notices appear to have been delivered.

Only when **** notice was delivered to me did I become aware that I was being pursued for a penalty which having reviewed the council's evidence I would have paid on receipt of the NTO.

Something along the lines of the above.

Much shorter and sharper and easier to follow and digest.

Whether any better or ultimately successful?

I'm not gonna disagree with that.

I just don't have the time to look back through the case.

Thank you all for all your input, it really is appreciated and I am grateful for the time you have given up in helping me. Please see below my final draft which I am going to send off tonight by email...

Reasons;

• I first became aware of Enforcement action on 3 May 2019 when I received a Notice of Enforcement letter from a Bailiff firm to my new address.

• I have never received a Notice to Owner.

• I moved to a new house on 6 May 2018. (Evidence document A & B) and made
arrangements with the new tenant to contact me if any post came, which they did until around July 2018. (Evidence document C)

• Contact was made with the various originators for my address to be updated.

• We were reliant on the new tenant, a person we could trust as they are of some standing, to retain our post and notify us.

• I notified DVLA of my update registered keeper details on 14 June 2019 and this was returned. The V5 shows a date of 31 July 2018 (Enc. Evidence D)

• Unbeknown to me, the Council had issued a Notice to Owner on 18 June and even though the new occupant was in residence I did not take delivery of any letters from Harborough District Council or Leicestershire County Council for parking related matters.

• We did collect a letter from Harborough District Council, accidentally sent to the old address in May, acknowledging our move to the new address and detailing the amount of Council Tax refund due.

• On the 9th May when the contravention occurred, I was still very much in the throes of house moving stresses whilst being a Mum to my, then one year old, Daughter and twelve-year-old Son.

• By July 2018 all relevant organisations had been notified of my new address and as such the calls from the tenant at the rented property about our post had stopped - they moved out of the property in October 2018.

• I have since found out that new tenants moved in on 18 October 2018 and I can only assume that any letting agents involved at the that time or the new tenants themselves may have disposed of post and junk mail not addresses to them.

• Only when an Enforcement notice was delivered to me at my new address on 3 May 2019 did I become aware that was being pursued for a penalty which, having reviewed the council's evidence, I would have paid on receipt of the Notice to Owner.

• These documents had been sent to an incorrect address for me including on 18 November 2018 - six months following my move and four months after the update of my registered keeper details.

• I believe that since being contacted on 3 May 2019 by the Enforcement firm, I have acted in good faith and with the best intentions to notify all relevant parties involved with this case of my correct address and to deal with this matter generally.

• I do not believe I should be charged fees by a third-party company to attend an old address when it was in their power to check that it was not only correct, but current.

• I also believe the DVLA had been notified of my address change within a reasonable time following my house move and that I did not knowingly or deliberately delay updating any party with my new address details including the DVLA and the Council.

Hello again,

After quite a long delay I have heard back from the TEC and as predicted the Council refused the application although the Council didn't actually send me their response, I had to call them on Friday to ask for it.
I have attached the Council's response to this message. I would appreciate all your input as I am keen to submit this to the Court for further review but need help filling out the forms which need to be back with them by the end of the week.

Thanks in advance,
Bernie

Date?


and what do you think of it?

Letter dated 21 June. Received 24 June.



I think it's quite a poor, generic response - they have repeated one paragraph twice in different places.
Their argument is we made no attempt to contact them during proceedings/enforcement to notify them of our change of address when, in their opinion, we could have done so because they had written to us, in some cases months after we had vacated the property and my argument is that we couldn't have possibly contacted them because we didn't know we were being pursued in the first place (other than the original ticket which had been forgotten about) and as soon as we had been contacted, by the recovery firm, I made every effort to contact the Council.
I still don't think 6 May - Mid June is a long time to notify DVLA of our new address and I also feel very strongly (my main annoyance) that the recovery company just blindly rocks up at an address without at least checking themselves with the DVLA.
The Council state that they were unaware of the address given on the Witness statement and have seemingly disregarded the fact that we had contacted the same Council, albeit a different department, to notify them of the change of address for Council Tax reasons in May 2018, to which they responded and refunded payments.

Attached is the response from the Court which clearly states the Council should have already responded to me with their decision, so I waited a few days.. and nothing!
Contacted the Council who said they do not normally send out the reasons why and so I should not expect anything from them, however after a bit of protesting they did send me their response to the court (see previous post) by email.

Is that normal that a respondent/defendant doesn't get the Council's reasons? Seems very unfair to me.

So you're saying you want to fight it?

Yes, I want to fight it. Can you help me?

Download N244 form to make your mind boggle, to start. £100 court fee.

Don't do it without input here.

I still think your points are reasonable but, the way things work, we just can't say how a
judge would view it.

Ok so,

Name of Court: Traffice enforcement centre
Claim no: I've put the the PCN number - is this correct?
Claimant name: Leicstershire Council - is the ref the PCN also?
Defendant: My partner ref: PCN no.

Q1. Name
Q2, Defendant
Q3. Set aside Judgement against me (See attached statement of case) - is this correct?
Q4. No sure what to put here.
Q5 Without a hearing
Q6. Left blank
Q7. Left blank
Q8 District Judge
Q9. Leicestershire County Council (227)
Q9a. Council address
Q10 Statement of case? - is this correct?

With the Statement of Case, can I submit the previous reason for the OOT request, or must I write a new statement .. can I include all the evidence they have already had?

Thanks for your help.

If you decide to request a judge to review the matter, then keep it simple.

Your narratives do tend to be lengthy and trying to distil the essence is not easy, but this is what needs to be done.

I have picked up the following:
You say you notified DVLA 'in mid-June' to amend your registered keeper details;
The authority applied to DVLA for the RK address on 9 June and sent the NTO on 12th June;
The authority issued an Order for Recovery on 12 Sept. 2018;
The tenant - ACC ****, with whom you had an arrangement to collect mail regularly - vacated the property 'in October';
It is common ground that when the OfR was sent DVLA had amended your RK details and that had the authority confirmed your address, none of what followed would have occurred and you would have submitted your WS in time.


Your case is different from most we see in that up to the key date i.e. service of the OfR, you say you were collecting mail(most OPs don't and therefore the issue is different). On this point, have you seen any evidence by way of a copy of a document claimed to have been sent to your 'old address'. You've blanked out your address in their objection so we cannot see whether this was identical to your previous DVLA entry or whether its format could give rise to other delivery problems.

This objection is another example of the nonsense submitted by authorities and IMO points you to your main emphasis.

They may object to TEC accepting a WS OOT. The ONLY relevant issue is therefore the OfR, the rest is context and not, as here, the substance.

We addressed the OfR in Sept. to the same address we'd used for the NTO.
This is not mandatory. They have a duty to act fairly.
They seek to draw justification from the fact that they did not receive anything from you during the enforcement process, but this works both ways i.e. you were trying to avoid all contact - the ostrich approach or none of the notices was received.

So, what should an authority do acting fairly before issuing an OfR in such situations - and IMO this should be mandatory, after all it's done in the blink of an eye electronically? They should contact DVLA to confirm the keeper's address. In this way no fault could be put their way. The whole purpose of the WS procedure is to address 'breakdowns in communication' between the authority and the keeper. It's not an excuse to bury their heads, now whose acting like an ostrich?

Point taken - I can't help it though.



The blanked out address is correct and the format does not give rise for ambiguity.
However I should explain that the property to which this address refers to is not easy to find. The estate (Farndon Fields in Market Harborough) is quite new.. 400 houses in the last few years, another 200 being built now and different posties/delivery drivers often get confused and lost with road names/door numbers and lots of people on the estate have post go missing/undelivered/delivered to an incorrect road but correct door number etc.

I appreciate your input and thank you.

In combination with what HCA is saying, your reply to me, post #35, seems a concise
enough summary (if edited a bit) of the nonsense of LCC's objection.

Just to confirm this is correct ..

To revoke the Order of the Court Officer, of 21 June 2019, that refused leave to file a Statutory Declaration outside the normally permitted time.

I didn't pickup whether nth means something or was a typo?

'n' Universally used to represent an unknown or example number.

.. every day is a School day!
I've not come across that before, thanks!

Ok, I'll condense everything down and post here shortly.

Apologies for the delay with this - was called away with work ....

Here's my draft ..

Leicestershire Council argue that I made no attempt to contact them during proceedings/enforcement to notify them of my change of address when, in their opinion, I could have done so because they had written to me, in some cases, months after I had vacated the property.

My argument is that I could not have possibly contacted them because I did not know I was being pursued in the first place and as soon as contact was made, by debt collectors to my new address, I made every effort to contact all parties, including the Council.

When my partner contacted the central ticket office for Leicestershire Council in May this year the Operator he spoke to conceded they had a ‘linked address’ for me at my new residence but they could only use what the DVLA had provided when they searched on 9 June 2018.

My V5 registration was submitted to the DVLA in mid-June around 4 weeks after I had moved and was updated on 31 July 2018.
The Council state they addressed the Order for Recovery on 21/9/2018 to the same address they had used for the Notice to Owner on 12/6/18 even though no responses had been received.
I do not believe this is mandatory and the Council have a duty to act fairly.

The Council could have contacted the DVLA to confirm the keeper's address at the point the Order for Recovery was being issued and in doing so no fault could be put their way. It would have also allowed me to submit my witness statement in time.

My understanding is that the whole purpose of the Witness Statement procedure addresses 'breakdowns in communication' between the authority and the registered keeper.

Leicestershire Council seek to draw justification from the fact that they did not receive anything from me during the enforcement process, but this works both ways.

The Council state that they were unaware of the address given on the Witness statement and have seemingly disregarded the fact that I had contacted the same Council, albeit a different department, to notify them of my new address for Council Tax reasons in May 2018. This new address was documented by the authority and they responded by writing to me my old address, even though we had already moved, to confirm a payment refund.

I do not think the period 6 May - Mid June is a long time to notify DVLA of our new address and I also feel very strongly that the debt recovery company have a duty to act fairly and not just blindly turn up at an address without at least having checked themselves with the DVLA that it is current, especially when the Council had received no responses at all.

Simple answer ---- NO, it's full of rubbish, frankly.

Remind me the date of the TEC refusal order. ?

21st June 2019

Response needs to be with TEC this afternoon. I'm emailing it - have already called today to pay the £100



Great! What rubbish can I drop?

Technically, no.
Deadline is 9th if you read the 14 days on the order. 'Service' being 2 working days.

I'll try today, in a while, but you're pushing us into a corner somewhat.